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webreseller.net OUTAGE Whats up ?
| Posted by xecom, 12-15-2009, 04:20 PM |
Outage reported at : Mon Dec 14 18:07:40 EST 2009
at 6pm est it will have been a full 24 hours
webreseller.net
-own website is down / (looks like routed to a parked service)
support email - No response
all the support phone no. for them
888 837 6680
Not working no answer -
- cannot get any responce from them!
CEO / contact was Paul Rice
anyone using these guys get any responce on what is going on?
anyone else a customer?
I have been since 2003 -
What is going on? Did they walk out?
Any info on the status Please post
Thanks!
Joe |
| Posted by ItsJustHosting, 12-15-2009, 04:23 PM |
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Their homepage gives me "Please stand by... we are experiencing technical difficulties." It doesn't look like they've walked out, might just be facing some issues. |
| Posted by xecom, 12-15-2009, 04:33 PM |
.. thanks Yeah they put that page up a few hours ago..
it traces to an ip off their list of ip's
main thing they are not responding to email or ph calls
I pay over $200/m for my dedicated server
you would think I would get an email response for that
.. some kind of support.. this really sucks
Ive lost half of my customer base since yesterday..
I know this company changed hands about 6m ago
rob greenwald sold it to paul rice..
I used to have Rob's cell ph so that was fine
now I get 0 support
I guess it finally time to move after 7 years.
any recommendations? |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-17-2009, 06:25 AM |
I found this additional contact ... anyone has tried to call ???
For the moment, no reply at all to all my messages ...
Technical Contact:
Hak, Seth
Sigma Host
10-09 Saddle River Road
Fairlawn, New Jersey 07410
United States
+1.8624857751 |
| Posted by vlus, 12-17-2009, 12:00 PM |
Guys, I've regrettbly been with WR for about 7 yrs now, but this appears to be the end of the line.
First, they moved from Burst.net back in august where they were apparantly co-locing servers. Now the IP addresses belong to a company called PAETEC our of Rochester NY.
I've talked to Bonnie in Cust Svc at length, have my lawyer involved and have had numerous emails with their NOC.
My understanding is PAETEC supplies T1 service to Exton NOC, and it appears they have cut them off presumably for non-payment. I spoke to Rob Greenawalt, the former CEO of WR, and he confirmed Paul Rice and Seth Hack were having financial troubles.
The phone messaging at the WR number has changed as of late yesterday, as there is no longer an option for sales or support, just press 0 for a general Sigmahost mailbox.
Note that SMTP service appears to still be working as emails are not bouncing back, so I think PAETEC has just blocked web and pop access.
We are trying to get them to uunblock just our IP, but they are resisiting claiming their relationship with Sigma prevents this.
Perhaps if PAETEC started getting a few more irate callers... we have about 130 business domains tied up on my dedicated server at WR.
OK, that all i have for now.... look forward to other posts.
Vlus (NEPA) |
| Posted by xecom, 12-17-2009, 12:28 PM |
yeah I have the same info ..
ph # 888 837 6680 just goes to voice mail
but the msg was changed to say "sigma host"
I have left many msgs - no response..
also 888 837 6680 - if you call - you just get a msg saying .."this customer is not receiving calls"
It has been 3 days now since they went down
no waring, no time to get backups, no emails .. nothing .. seems at 6pm on monday they just walked out
like a bunch of criminals!
they think they can get away with this sh.. they had better think again!
Are you a customer with them? pm me if you are I am trying to find as many of their customers
to connect .. I have an attorney looking into this
they also hit my cc for another $200 on monday
let me know if you hear anything
Thanks for the post |
| Posted by AllTheRage, 12-17-2009, 12:36 PM |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by vlus
Guys, I've regrettbly been with WR for about 7 yrs now, but this appears to be the end of the line.
First, they moved from Burst.net back in august where they were apparantly co-locing servers. Now the IP addresses belong to a company called PAETEC our of Rochester NY.
I've talked to Bonnie in Cust Svc at length, have my lawyer involved and have had numerous emails with their NOC.
My understanding is PAETEC supplies T1 service to Exton NOC, and it appears they have cut them off presumably for non-payment. I spoke to Rob Greenawalt, the former CEO of WR, and he confirmed Paul Rice and Seth Hack were having financial troubles.
The phone messaging at the WR number has changed as of late yesterday, as there is no longer an option for sales or support, just press 0 for a general Sigmahost mailbox.
Note that SMTP service appears to still be working as emails are not bouncing back, so I think PAETEC has just blocked web and pop access.
We are trying to get them to uunblock just our IP, but they are resisiting claiming their relationship with Sigma prevents this.
Perhaps if PAETEC started getting a few more irate callers... we have about 130 business domains tied up on my dedicated server at WR.
OK, that all i have for now.... look forward to other posts.
Vlus (NEPA)
|
Thanks for the update do you have the number you phoned at PAETEC so I can add my angry voice. |
| Posted by xecom, 12-17-2009, 12:41 PM |
Thanks! yes please post all the contact on PAETEC you have
maybe together we can get them to unblock our ip's.. even if for an hour or so to get critical backups.. |
| Posted by xecom, 12-17-2009, 12:52 PM |
paetec.com
paetec.com/about-us/contact-us
Phone: 877.472.3832
Fax: 585.340.2801
E-mail: info@paetec.com |
| Posted by AllTheRage, 12-17-2009, 01:38 PM |
I phoned PAETEC on 877 340 2555 (as I am in the U.K I had to ring 001 877.340.2555) I spoke to Scott & he helped to answer a few of my questions. He did confirm that WebReseller has gone bust & has NOT paid the bills. He did offer to setup a New Server (new IPs) for me but I would have to re-upload all DATA again.
I explained to him that when WR moved three months ago they FRIED the server we had & we had to have a NEW server & upload all our data then. Now we have to upload it all again. He said at the moment they cant access WR server & cant transfer the Data for me.
The Domain was ordered by my old partner & he did it via WR (I know that was a Foolish move), So we have NO control over the Domain. So if we have a new Server we cant edit the IP's or Nameservers.
Bottom line is we have to wait for PAETEC to get the Legal stuff sorted & then we may be contacted via PAETEC about the Servers.
I have to make a decision now do I wait for PAETEC to sort themselves out (they could not give me a time line on when this could be) or do I go with a brand new server company. |
| Posted by vlus, 12-17-2009, 01:49 PM |
Paetek offer us to set up a new server an IP, but that doesnt help... since we cant recover our critical emails and server based databases!!!! we have html backed up locally, but we need time and access to get email and db's off the server.
Here is real glitch guys.... even if Paetec opens the ip's up for us, we have to hope the servers are still plugged in. If paetec waits much longer and WR/Sigma pulls the servers off line.... opening the IP;s will be too late. They need to act NOW.
Our company is negotiating 2 million in real estate transactions, and we cant get to our email because Paetec is playing this nonsense game with the IP's.... if they are fishing for a lawsuit, its coming.
Vlus |
| Posted by leoaloha, 12-17-2009, 02:30 PM |
Well I am not in for two million but I do want my backups. I have been with this outfit for a long time also and then Voom - Vaporhost!
I think if they havent paid the Data bill electric is not far behind. The servers are probably down |
| Posted by vlus, 12-17-2009, 02:38 PM |
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If the servers are down, we're all SOL. Opening our IP's will be too little too late. PAEtec needs a throng of callers. I just dont understand why there are only 3 or 4 of us posting.... I would have expected to see dozens if not scores of angry clients by now. |
| Posted by leoaloha, 12-17-2009, 02:49 PM |
agreed vlus! maybe some people take some time??? or dont know about this site, or maybe we are on the wrong site, lol
Waiting..... |
| Posted by AllTheRage, 12-17-2009, 03:09 PM |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vlus
If the servers are down, we're all SOL. Opening our IP's will be too little too late. PAEtec needs a throng of callers. I just dont understand why there are only 3 or 4 of us posting.... I would have expected to see dozens if not scores of angry clients by now.
|
Well as of 9 hours ago the billing side of things still work as my partner has a free web host with them and got the monthly email as usual from the Webreseller Finance Department stating
Your Webreseller Account, balance is currently $0. If your account is setup on auto pay by credit card then this is why you are receiving this notice.If you wish to view your invoice online you may log into your account management at:
Which makes me think they are still going to charge us when our monthly payment date is due. |
| Posted by leoaloha, 12-17-2009, 03:14 PM |
I just changed my CC number so they cannot!
See if I get an E-mail - doubt it! |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-17-2009, 06:29 PM |
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anyone has some more news from PAETEC ? it seems they are trying to contact SIGMA to have access to servers for customers |
| Posted by aherrick, 12-18-2009, 12:40 AM |
I too am an abandoned Webreseller.net customer. Ive been with them for almost 7 or so years and am rather disappointed at how this was handled. I'm somewhat lucky as I really am only out 2 months hosting fees. I would have liked to have backed up my content and data and maybe known about this a little ahead of time at least.
I plan on calling PAETEC tomorrow to add my voice to the mix. But now I guess I get to spend my holidays finding a new hosting service i can live with and rebuilding. Urgh! |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-18-2009, 11:55 AM |
Does somebody have some other way to contact Paul Rice or Seth Hak, like personnal / home phone ? From what I know, PAETEC is trying to contact them because even if they reactivate connection, servers can be reached at SIGMA HOST ..... and PAETEC seems to have only same contact infos as us ..... they are trying to contact them in order to get access to datas for customers
It would be great to have Mr Robert Greenawalt and ask him way to reach Paul Rice other than the usual desk phone number or support email since they dont reply to those ones ...
just an idea ..... |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-18-2009, 11:58 AM |
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Sorry .. I meant "even if they reactivate connection, servers can NOT be reached at SIGMA HOST" |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-18-2009, 12:06 PM |
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If someone has such contact infos (maybe some help from Mr Greenwalt for that would be appreciated), please forward it to me, I will send them to the person who is taking care of this at PAETEC and is trying to contact them since 2 days, in order to reactivate connection and process backups and datas transfer from their server |
| Posted by AllTheRage, 12-18-2009, 12:51 PM |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by victor2009
Does somebody have some other way to contact Paul Rice or Seth Hak, like personnal / home phone
|
Paul Rice was on Facebook, I've added him as a Friend & sent him 5x messages. Then yesterday he DELETED his account (nice)
Seth Hak is on FaceBook & Twitter as MasterStan add that to the URL on FaceBook / Twitter (I've sent him Messages & no reply ever) he has a website: dnjnow (dot) com
Rob used to have this email to his Cell Phone. 4842568078 (at) txt (dot) att (dot) net or ring the Number |
| Posted by AllTheRage, 12-18-2009, 02:13 PM |
Seth's details from. Seth is from Fair Lawn, NJ
Skype @ codyrock
AIM @ kcorydoc
codyrock (at) gmail.com
Paul Rice is back on FaceBook: paul.rice is his ID (add to the end of FaceBook link. |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-18-2009, 09:11 PM |
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I have forwarded the infos to PAETEC ... any news from your side anybody ? |
| Posted by vlus, 12-18-2009, 09:37 PM |
I spoke to Rob Greenawalt Wednesday... he has basically washed his hands of it. He did say he believed WR was having financial problems and was probably down for the count. Basically, his position is, he sold it to Paul and Seth, and isnt involved with the company at all for some time.
He did give me Pauls phone number... its the same as Robs number (see earlier post, but last number is 6.
Called several times, but a woman answers and just says it must be a wrong number... I doubt it.
If Paul and Seth were any kind of stand up people, they would find a way to get us temporary access, even an invite to come down and patch into the servers to retrieve our data to laptop.
I'm only 90 minutes away, and they know the critical client information I have in my databases, yet, not a single return phone call, nothing.
Vlus |
| Posted by AllTheRage, 12-19-2009, 07:46 AM |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vlus
He did give me Pauls phone number... its the same as Robs number (see earlier post, but last number is 6.
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How did you get Rob's number or speak with him to give you Paul's Cell?
The number I posted was the number we used to email Rob (via his Cell). Not sure how there 6 at the end should be wrong as I copied/pasted that from Address Book in Google.
I just wish Seth would give my control over the Domain (even if we lost the Server). Long story but a old business partner gor WR to buy Domain at time of ordering server, told him NOT to do it that way, but he did  so we cant edit Nameservers or anything. |
| Posted by vlus, 12-19-2009, 10:26 AM |
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the number you posted *is* Robs cell. (or at least *was*) ..... Pauls cell had a 6 at the end instead of an 8 |
| Posted by oliviakitty, 12-19-2009, 11:19 AM |
It's crazy they took the time to add some script that let's you trace your IP address to their homepage when all this is going down.
But, can't make some sort of statement/notice/response to their clients. |
| Posted by vlus, 12-19-2009, 11:26 AM |
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I'm thinking PAETEC put that page up, rather than saying this client is down because they havent paid their bill. |
| Posted by oliviakitty, 12-19-2009, 11:35 AM |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vlus
I'm thinking PAETEC put that page up, rather than saying this client is down because they havent paid their bill.
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Oh okay, lol.
Hope you guys get PAETEC to cooperate. |
| Posted by AllTheRage, 12-19-2009, 12:01 PM |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vlus
the number you posted *is* Robs cell. (or at least *was*) ..... Pauls cell had a 6 at the end instead of an 8
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ah ok, i get you. |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-20-2009, 01:38 AM |
Okay, so I just found this thread and I can't believe it! I have been with these guys since Robert Greenwalt and Paul Rice started, and I can't believe Paul wouldn't give us the opportunity to get our data!
I have all my Church websites and all of my company websites on a server there. Worst of all, last week we had a break in and we lost our machine with all of our back ups! Now I'm really in trouble... all I have left are old back ups on a flash drive that are pretty much worthless other than the databases.
Let's make sure we use the names as much as possible (Seth Hak, Paul Rice) so they get indexed in the search engines. After all, these guys will need to look for some IT work and most companies are going to Google their names.
So where do we go from here?
-Rich |
| Posted by leoaloha, 12-20-2009, 02:03 AM |
I still cant help but think of the "VALUE" of the servers and infrastructure at the site
I mean somebody may take it over or there is going to be a big computer swap meet in New Jersey ( after the snow )
L |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-20-2009, 03:15 AM |
I thought they were in Exton, PA? Anyway, it makes no difference... what's really a shame is they hurt so many people by doing this. They absolutely knew it was coming and should have the decency to do some tarballs and host them on a free server somewhere for when the inevitable happened.
You know Seth Hak and Paul Rice are going to read this thread eventually, and when they do, I hope they understand that a lot of people worked hard to build businesses around them, and their lack of professionalism has ruined them, but what goes around comes around! I'm sure there are people that will track them in their future endeavors and expose their past experiences. |
| Posted by vlus, 12-20-2009, 01:17 PM |
I feel, based an my recent (and several prior) conversations with Rob Greenawalt, that he still has communication with Paul Rice and Seth Hack. In fact, he was so adamant and clear about them having financial trouble when I spoke with him last week, I am certain there is still some connection with them.
Rob has a new company, cell services of some sort, but I wouldn't doubt for a minute that he is still some how involved in all this. ...or, at the very least... is in a position to communicate with Paul Rice and Seth Hack.
Robs cell, as previously posted is 484-256-8078 ...whether or not he''ll answer is questionable at this point, but I think everyone should be badgering him, PAETEC and the woman who keeps answering what I believe is Paul's cell phone, which was always the same as Robs, but with a 6 at the end.
I posted all the emails and phone numbers for Paetec (ultimately the ones blocking the IP addresses).... how many of you have actively and incessantly called, emailed and then did it over and over again? Has anyone other than me, had their attorney send them an official email?
It's going to take a group effort to get Paetec to open the IPs.
Vlus |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-20-2009, 01:34 PM |
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Vlus, Can you send me your lawyer's information please? I have an attorney on staff and it will probably be a lot easier if he can communicate with yours. |
| Posted by smirk100, 12-20-2009, 07:06 PM |
Vlus,
Have you heard anything? I have emailed and contacted by phone with no results. I found this information on Seth Hak but could not find any information on Paul Rice. I cannot believe they didn't give a couple days for backup and/or warning. This is absolutely a disappointment. I have spoke with Rob and he is totally out of this business and has been for a couple of years actually. I hope you bigger companies can get something resolved for all of us. Thanks |
| Posted by smirk100, 12-20-2009, 07:13 PM |
Seth D Hak Is this you? Edit
10-09 Saddle River Rd
Fair Lawn, NJ 07410-5718
(201) 791-7774 |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-22-2009, 07:59 AM |
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Any news ? .... from what I know, they even dont reply to PAETEC (PAETEC tried all contact infos posted here, even Facebook ....) |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-22-2009, 10:24 AM |
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I am still not understanding what if any legal implications PAETEC would be facing by unblocking the IPs long enough for people to make a back up of our websites and databases - this sounds quite strange to me. It's not like anyone is asking for any private information. There has to be more to this story... |
| Posted by victor2009, 12-22-2009, 01:27 PM |
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From what I know PAETEC is trying to contact SIGMA / WEBRESELLER in order to have access to their facilities for backup, but they too are facing to no reply from SIGMA side ... |
| Posted by SavConDan, 12-22-2009, 04:54 PM |
Is Sigma a separate entity from Paul Rice and Seth Hak? I was also under the impression that WR was in Phila. area but Sigma is out of NJ.
I have also been with them since 2001 and have had major problems in the past...including them 'losing' a 35 page website entirely during a server change...to which their comment was "OOPS" with no resolve. The backup could not be deployed properly and was evidently also 'lost'. The site was generating 3million plus hits per year.
Is there any update on PAETEC working with us? I spoke with Rob Greenawault yesterday and he has been in touch with Seth (last week)and says that Seth didn't give him a clue there was anything wrong.
R.G. will probably be of no help.
I sent an email to PAETEC but have received no response. Would it do any good to contact the FTC? |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-23-2009, 10:02 AM |
I think Sigma was owned by Seth Hac and Webreseller was owned by Paul Rice and the two of them merged, or at least that was what I was told - no one really ever knows the truth with these guys.
I too have had many problems with WR over the years, so we always kept a recent back up, and when the server would go down we would just upload a copy to an Arvixe server @ $3/month and temporarily change the DNS until the outage resolved. Problem is, our back up machine was stolen during a break-in at work a couple of weeks ago and our back ups are gone. I have been able to get a couple of sites back up from a really old flash drive back up, but they are missing the databases for the scripts, so they are basically non-functional.
By the way, if anyone is looking for a good host, I have nothing but praise for Arvixe. I have had a few personal website hosted there for a long time, probably 4 years or so, one running Boonex and Ray Media Server for video and audio uploads and I have never had a lick of trouble with them, but their reseller and co-location plans are a bit high.
Is there anyone planning on filing suit against PAETEC? 13 people would get a class action. Unless I am understanding this wrong, they don't need access to the facility to unblock the IP addresses long enough for us to make back ups, and they are basically blocking access to our intellectual property. If this goes on for too long, I'm sure the electricity will be cut off at Sigma and we'll all be out of luck forever.
If anyone has a lawyer involved, please call me at 504-214-9605 so I can put our attorney in touch with yours.
-Rich |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-23-2009, 10:43 AM |
BTW... I am going to the bank this morning to cancel my credit card they have on file. I had an open ticket on their site about false charges that was never resolved - one of those open forever tickets with a "we're looking into it" reply.
I had my plan set at semi-annual charges and after an accounting question, I was told they were charging the card every 5 months instead of 6, so every 5 billing cycles, they got an extra charge for free - very deceptive! Who knows if they'll attempt any of their so-called automated charges again. I just got hit for a 6 month charge, with them knowing they were in dire straights and about to be cut off, so who knows what else they'll do. |
| Posted by xecom, 12-24-2009, 01:30 AM |
FROM support@webreseller.net
date Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:21 AM
subject WebReseller.Net - Out of Business
Dear WebReseller.Net Client,
We must apologize for the delay in getting answers to you on the status of WebReseller. We have not had access to any of our databases/customer information. Do to economic hardships WebReseller.Net has been forced to close its doors for good. We have lost access to our Support, Billing, Phone, and Email systems as well as access to control panels and servers. We will arrange to have the data center make your site data available to you at their convenience. This issue was not something that we could foresee, and was brought on suddenly. Please note: no further charges will be made to any account/credit card. This sudden closure has effected us all in a very negative way and we apologize.
----
.. "available to you at their convenience." Yeah how about my convenience .. its my data
.. and "issue was not something that we could foresee, and was brought on suddenly" - yeah right So how is it possible Not to know you didnt pay your bill for the last 4 months .. then just bug out like rats!
what a load of BS.. sheesh! |
| Posted by xecom, 12-24-2009, 02:07 AM |
anyway so on to the facts..
I have lost more than $1000/per month because
of this willful act of gross negligence on behalf of these criminals..
sound like some of you even more -- just makes for a really merry Christmas don't it?
I just talked to my lawyer in new york and he believes if we band together (as mentioned before on this thread) we have a very good chance
of getting some relief on this - if not from the deadbeats at WR then PAETEC as they are just as culpable or maybe really more so
they are the morons that refused to give us access - all we needed was a few hours maybe a day to get backups
looks like these guys are the real villains in this act.. |
| Posted by k1w1, 12-24-2009, 07:18 AM |
Hi all, I was wondering too what had happened to WR/Sigma as I have been with them since 2003. I am 'fortunate' that I had recently moved all of my server accounts to dedicated hardware that I actually own and in a damn fine data center here in Brisbane Australia.
Back in August WR 'tried' to copy all our accounts to the new hosting center but it only partly worked. Next the WR data dentre closed leaving us without anything for about 3 days, and only after I made the switch to the 'new' servers. Apart from everyhting else what p#$%^ed me off was I had previously been on a dedicated server- supposedly - and on the new servers it was Cpanel VPS. WR claimed the disks from the old servers were damaged and no data could be retrieved. Fortunately I was able to get about 80% of our client sites up and running. WR 'gave' me a 3 month discount of hosting fees.
Then, at the beginning of Nov the 'new' VPS fell over - support response from WR was almost nil and this time we had very few backups. Witht the help of a good friend I got space in a data center and put my own servers into it. It took 10 days or so for WR to restore theit server and data. As soon as it was online I grabbed ALL our configs, sites, databases, etc.
Cant say as I was surprised that WR/Sigma are dead. Their client support has been shocking in the last 6 months, wasnt that much better before really. At one stage I had well over 200 cleint slites, now its less than 25 - and I reckon that the loss of the clients is directly atrributable to slow response and overcharging.
I think it would be costly and in the end a futile exercise for me to persue any form of legal and finacial compensation, and I suspect it is the same for many of WR/Sigma's clients.
I feel the pain that everyone is going through and wish everyone can get through the tough periods while rebuilding their clients sites and good will. For those that also find they have to close I personally wish you all the best for the future. Let's hope that Paul and Seth get whats coming them and that the data centre holding the WR assets open them to the WR clients so they can rescue their bsuinesses. |
| Posted by smirk100, 12-24-2009, 09:01 AM |
I received this message yesterday.
Dear WebReseller.Net Client,
We must apologize for the delay in getting answers to you on the status of WebReseller. We have not had access to any of our databases/customer information. Do to economic hardships WebReseller.Net has been forced to close its doors for good. We have lost access to our Support, Billing, Phone, and Email systems as well as access to control panels and servers. We will arrange to have the data center make your site data available to you at their convenience. This issue was not something that we could foresee, and was brought on suddenly. Please note: no further charges will be made to any account/credit card. This sudden closure has effected us all in a very negative way and we apologize. |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-24-2009, 09:36 AM |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by xecom
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Ah, so there email is again working. I see their domain name is now at Google Sites.
Quote:
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We must apologize for the delay in getting answers to you on the status of WebReseller. We have not had access to any of our databases/customer information. Do to economic hardships WebReseller.Net has been forced to close its doors for good.
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On a minute notice? Why then would they charge my card for another six months hosting in advance?? There is no question this was foreseeable!
Quote:
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We will arrange to have the data center make your site data available to you at their convenience. This issue was not something that we could foresee, and was brought on suddenly.
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I'm curious how this might happen? Why in the world would PAETEC open the IPs without getting paid? Or is this a matter of simply having approval from someone at WR?
Quote:
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Please note: no further charges will be made to any account/credit card.
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Ah, so now we know for sure that Paul or Seth (probably both) are reading this thread! Come on guys, grow some b@lls and post up some answers!
Quote:
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This sudden closure has effected us all in a very negative way and we apologize.
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Yes, agreed, but we had absolutely nothing to do with it! I'm sure it had all to do with the lack of support on your end for the last year or so. Even I, probably your most dedicated customer was contemplating moving after the last few outages with no replies on the support site!
"effected us all" you write... yes, maybe, but we don't deserve to loose our customers like this! There is no question you knew this was coming! I have lost all of my Church's data as well as a bunch of other sites that took 10s of thousands of dollars to build. Not to mention my personal websites and my hobby site, that had about 10,000 how-to articles on it.
I hope this email was indeed sincere, but I have to be skeptical. Time will tell, and hearing directly from the horse's mouth on this forum will let us know just how sincere these boys are. Come on Paul and Seth... join in and explain yourselves, the email you sent to that member is too vague and does not answer the questions at hand - you have to stand up like men and take the medicine like adults. Don't worry, after it's all over, you'll actually feel better! I promise!
-Rich |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-24-2009, 10:23 AM |
FYI, I just tried to send an email and this is what I got:
Quote:
Recipient: <support@webreseller.net>
Reason: 5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist. Please try 5.1.1 double-checking the recipient's email address for typos or 5.1.1 unnecessary spaces.
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Here's the email I sent:
Paul,
How about some real answers on WR? I'm sure you're aware of the topic on webhostingtalk.com but I'm wondering why you're not joining in on the conversation? There are a lot of people who want answers and the blanket "Dear WebReseller.net…" email will not suffice.
Please join the conversation on the discussion board and let us all know how you're planning to get our IPs unblocked so we can retrieve our data. |
| Posted by richfaraone, 12-24-2009, 11:29 AM |
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Originally Posted by xecom
...I just talked to my lawyer in new york and he believes if we band together (as mentioned before on this thread) we have a very good chance
of getting some relief on this - if not from the deadbeats at WR then PAETEC as they are just as culpable or maybe really more so
they are the morons that refused to give us access - all we needed was a few hours maybe a day to get backups
looks like these guys are the real villains in this act..
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I would like to pass on a tip to you guys... I have met with our STAFF attorney who would have no financial gain in any legal proceedings should I elect to move forward with action and he has just the opposite opinion.
There is sort of a pyramid effect going on here - we are at the bottom, WR in the middle and Paetec at the top. While anyone can file litigation against anyone else for almost any reason, it does not mean that a judge or jury would agree with the cause of action.
In our case, we purchased services from WR, not Paetec, so WR is the company to go after. Paetec was a supplier to WR, that's all, and we had no warranty, implied, expressed or otherwise form Paetec. The real question at hand is weather or not WR is an LLC and if they have filed liquidation paperwork with the state. To go a step further, if they are an LLC, can the corporate umbrella be pierced, or in other words, have they dotted all their i's and crossed all their t's with their corporate filings in recent years. Their business practices would suggest otherwise, and in this case, should the umbrella be pierceable, personal assets, such as any real property like cars, boats and houses would be available to a court ordered settlement. I am told that more than 70% of businesses that are LLCs can indeed have their corporate umbrellas pierced.
The only question that goes unresolved in our office right now is the question of intellectual property rights. We have a paralegal working on finding out if there is a precedent that applies to blocking data as it applies to intellectual property rights by a third party ISP, and if there is, Paetec would then be an avenue for litigation.
No matter what happens, we cannot file any litigation a 1000 miles away. We would have to band together and hire an attorney in the jurisdiction where WR was last domiciled, either PA or NJ, I'm not sure where they were.
Even if there is no precedent set for intellectual property rights as it pertains to the ISP, that doesn't mean we cannot include them (Paetec) in the litigation and set one. This does have the potential to be a large monetary case, since there are literally thousands of websites involved. Some single sites have $50-100K or more invested in programming charges at $100/hr, so this can easily become a seven figure class action suit.
I just want to caution everyone about lawyers and their motivation. Just because a lawyer says he will take on your case does not mean you will recover any damages. It just means that they will work on your behalf for a fee. The true way to tell how confident an attorney is in the case and their ability to recover damages is if they take it on a contingency basis - this would probably only happen with a high-dollar class action. If we don't hire the appropriate firm with the right experience and staff and file as a class action, individual suits will probably be futile unless settled out of court.
I do not see any way to post an email address in the profile here, so for anyone who is interested in taking this further, I can be contacted at richfaraone(AT)cox(DOT)net or 504-452-4209, or 504-241-9605. My data is worth mid to upper six figures and I'm sure there are lots of other folks in the same boat. Now that we know they're out of business, let's get together and see what we can get done. Merely expressing your disdain for WR on this board will not achieve anything at all, except maybe to make you feel better. |
| Posted by FastServ, 12-24-2009, 11:36 AM |
Just playing devil's advocate...one HUGE thing you guys are not considering...
A defense and judge/jury is going to question why you didn't maintain backups if your work was so valuable. It could be argued that extreme negligence occurred in both directions. |
| Posted by oliviakitty, 12-24-2009, 05:01 PM |
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Originally Posted by FastServ
Just playing devil's advocate...one HUGE thing you guys are not considering...
A defense and judge/jury is going to question why you didn't maintain backups if your work was so valuable. It could be argued that extreme negligence occurred in both directions.
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Yes, you should always have off-site backups.
However, that's not really a defense.
They signed up for disk space/storage and a means to access said space.
If this service fails, it is the provider's responsibility.
I know you were just throwing the idea out there. |
| Posted by webdoc, 12-27-2009, 04:23 AM |
Like Mr. Farone, I have been a WR customer for over 12 years. I still have two dedicated servers there somewhere. Fortunately, I have servers in other data centers and could create new accounts for affected customers there. And fortunately, most of the accounts had backups or the original files, but there were still several painful instances where a business didn't have a recent backup of their databases and dynamic web content.
I have had a long-standing policy of not being responsible for having a backup of the site info. The Plesk control panel allows each account to manually backup the site and also to schedule those backups. It is each account's responsibility to do that. Otherwise, I'd be inundated from requests from accounts everyday to help them because "in sub folder /team/east/newinfo/barbque/2009 they mistakenly overwrote the lickmyspoon.jpg file and want me to put a backup copy back online." All affected accounts that I've placed on new servers have been reminded how and why to use the Plesk backup function.
From my conversations with the folks at Paetec, I can understand their dilemma. They genuinely want to help, but there are quite a number of legal issues they have to resolve. After all, they know nothing of our relationship with WR. If one of us hadn't paid WR for our services, it wouldn't be proper for Paetec to give us access. They don't know who we are or what we might be entitled to have. And they certainly don't want to be responsible for making the data available to the wrong person.
The best scenario at this point would be for Seth and Paul to make the hard drives available on another server connected to the internet so that we could grab the data. If they don't' have the money to do that I'd be willing to do that for them. It can't cost that much and it could be done rather quickly.
For those who have been posting about their domain name registrations being held hostage, as long as you are listed as the Registrant, you can contact the Registrar and tell them the reseller from whom you purchased your domain name is not responsive, and the Registrar WILL help you. You may have to follow their procedures to convince them you are who you say you are, but as long as you are the Registrant, you're the owner of the domain name and the Registrar is obligated to follow your wishes.
Well - large lesson learned. If it had to happen, I wish it would have been after the holiday season. Let's hope 2010 is better. |
| Posted by domiii, 12-27-2009, 01:17 PM |
Just got a 'You Have a New Webreseller Invoice' notice.
Let's see if they try to charge the account. I was on monthly billing |
| Posted by SavConDan, 12-28-2009, 01:07 PM |
Okay...so WHEN is this going to happen??? I can still save some clients if I can get them back online. I certainly will have MAJOR problems trying to recreate sites that I didn't build.
The backups that I saved locally (routinely sent by WR) WON'T DEPLOY!!!
I don't even have time to rebuild my own sites...one of them being 35 pages deep.
COME ON PAUL AND SETH...LET'S GET THIS DONE |
| Posted by sliqua, 12-28-2009, 01:39 PM |
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Originally Posted by oliviakitty
Yes, you should always have off-site backups.
However, that's not really a defense.
They signed up for disk space/storage and a means to access said space.
If this service fails, it is the provider's responsibility.
I know you were just throwing the idea out there.
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Most hosting providers have statements of liability in their terms of service which protect them from being responsible for data loss. They also will typically state that customers should maintain their own off-site backups of their data. This is critical, especially in the event the co-location provider takes action against their gear (or servers fail).
In this case, it seems like they didn't pay their bills. PAETEC is not required to provide access to the customer's gear they took action against, though it seems like they're being nice and doing just that...
It's very important to maintain reliable off-site backups of all your data. Relying on a single provider for your data and your backups, while convenient, is asking for trouble. |
| Posted by oliviakitty, 12-28-2009, 02:38 PM |
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Originally Posted by sliqua
Most hosting providers have statements of liability in their terms of service which protect them from being responsible for data loss...
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The clauses in a TOS are not bullet proof with respect to either party.
While one might ask why a TOS wasn't read throughly.
Another might ask why the provider didn't advertise We might lose your data if you put it here.
Instead of leaving that blurb for the fine print.
Also, the common knowledge that most people don't read TOS would definitely come into play.
Then you can consider that the loss was due to the provider's gross negligence.
Rather than in a normal course/hazard of operations.
That's all if you feel your data is important as all that, lol. |
| Posted by sliqua, 12-28-2009, 02:51 PM |
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Originally Posted by oliviakitty
The clauses in a TOS are not bullet proof with respect to either party.
While one might ask why a TOS wasn't read throughly.
Another might ask why the provider didn't advertise We might lose your data if you put it here.
Instead of leaving that blurb for the fine print.
Also, the common knowledge that most people don't read TOS would definitely come into play.
Then you can consider that the loss was due to the provider's gross negligence.
Rather than in a normal course/hazard of operations.
That's all if you feel your data is important as all that, lol.
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Really depends on the company, most providers prominently have their Terms of Service available on their websites. Others require customers to sign and return a copy of their TOS/AUP so they have an agreement in writing. Obviously, both methods can be debated in court and no legal document is 100% bullet-proof.
However, when choosing a hosting company (or even SaaS applications)- all customers should consider the fact they aren't 100% in control of their data. Most hosting companies aren't either. Some rely on 3rd party services themselves, or have servers at a co-location provider's facility (not many hosting companies actually have their own datacenters).
So the question really becomes- can you trust your provider, your providers' providers, and their business models?
Do you believe the hosting company you select is going to be around tomorrow, or next year?
And, just as a side note- just because you're with a large hosting company doesn't guarantee that fact your data could be available to you in a month or year. There are stories on WHT of customers losing data because of servers failing, providers shutting down, backups not working, etc.
The customer is ultimately responsible for keeping backups of their own data (if it's really that important to them).
Just my two cents. |
| Posted by SavConDan, 12-29-2009, 02:41 PM |
Not the Point!
I appreciate the TOS argument here, but the real point is that the data is not LOST...it's LOCKED UP! I understand that 'files will get lost', WR 'lost' a 35 page website of mine during a server change recently.
The files in question here, in my opinion, are outside the typical TOS protection.
SOMEONE has some control in this situation...nothing's 'lost'. The question is whether someone, either PAETEC or WR, is going to step up and do the right thing without this getting dragged through the court system, which could take a lot more time than is reasonable.
JUST GIVE US THE FILES! |
| Posted by richfaraone, 01-02-2010, 10:57 AM |
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Originally Posted by sliqua
Most hosting providers have statements of liability in their terms of service which protect them from being responsible for data loss. They also will typically state that customers should maintain their own off-site backups of their data. This is critical, especially in the event the co-location provider takes action against their gear (or servers fail).
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Agreed, but I think if you read into the TOS and I always do, webreseller's stated something like they were not responsible for loss of data for things that are beyond their control, like fire, theft, acts of God, etc., not for not paying their bills!
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In this case, it seems like they didn't pay their bills. PAETEC is not required to provide access to the customer's gear they took action against, though it seems like they're being nice and doing just that...
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That is a matter of opinion, and ultimately if others get involved, a matter of a Judge or Jury's opinion. We are not talking about about physical goods, we're talking about intellectual property, that in previous cases is mentioned as an intangible asset.
Being nice and doing just what? Have they let you retrieve your data?
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It's very important to maintain reliable off-site backups of all your data. Relying on a single provider for your data and your backups, while convenient, is asking for trouble.
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Of course it is, you're not telling us anything we don't already know. Anyone who was with these guys for any length of time knows how often the data got corrupted. Remember the Feliz Navidad hacker a couple of years ago and his global index page?
We kept backups on the server and locally at our office, however we had a break in just before this happened and our backup laptop computer was stolen. What's worse is, the police actually caught the thief and recovered all our computer equipment, however we cannot get it back, or access to the laptop until after the case is over, about 4 to 6 months from now or more.
I'm beginning to wonder what the circumstances of the hardware at webreseller is. Did they rent their own space? Is the power still on? Has Paul and Seth taken the servers? Has the landlord taken the servers for non-payment? Does anyone have any specifics on this? |
| Posted by SavConDan, 01-04-2010, 01:43 PM |
We need you two guys to get on here and communicate with us exactly what your intentions are. If we are going to have access to our property, it needs to be NOW!!!
Don't wait until we have little or nothing to salvage, you have already caused irreparable damage to our companies and created a massive workload for most (who don't exactly relish what's coming under the 'best' of circumstances).
Don't drag this out...we want access NOW!!! |
| Posted by smirk100, 01-04-2010, 07:55 PM |
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Paul Rice and Seth Hak, Give me an update!!!! |
| Posted by richfaraone, 01-04-2010, 11:10 PM |
They updated their website last week:
"Please direct all inquiries and requests to service@webreseller.net
Last updated 12/24/2009 9:00pm EST"
Now why in the world would they do this? I see they also bought Whois Privacy Protection Service... now that's just plain silly! |
| Posted by richfaraone, 01-04-2010, 11:29 PM |
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For some reason, I have a zero post count and can't post links, so go to aboutus[dot]org/webreseller[dot]net. I just love the WIKI pages! |
| Posted by Everyday, 01-05-2010, 12:18 AM |
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That information for them is over 10 years old. If I were all of you I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to get your data. It's a shame it had to come to this, at one time webreseller.net was a good business. I should know, I helped Rob build it. Those were the good old days there though. I haven't seen or spoken to any of them in probably eight years. |
| Posted by richfaraone, 01-05-2010, 01:26 AM |
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I guess you read where I edited it... |
| Posted by domiii, 01-07-2010, 02:30 PM |
Just Got this email:
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: Webreseller Collections <billing@webreseller.net>
To:
Subject: Your Webreseller.Net Account is Over Due
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:34:48 +0000
Your Webreseller Account is currently past due. Please bring your account up to date as soon as possible. Your account will be auto suspended after 3 attempts
to process payment.
If your account is suspended you will need to pay a $25.00 activation f
????????? |
| Posted by Everyday, 01-07-2010, 03:49 PM |
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It looks like their billing system is still operating. Any of you that are customers who gave them your credit card info you might want to call your bank and cancel those cards. |
| Posted by aherrick, 01-08-2010, 01:48 AM |
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Their billing system is running, the return email does not work. They have set this up again somewhere else after losing their services due to nonpayment which solidifies their criminal intent. I encourage anyone who received notice of their billing system billing or trying to bill your account to report them to the FBI Computer Crime division as this is clearly computer/internet based fraud now. |
| Posted by aherrick, 01-08-2010, 02:08 AM |
I strongly urge anyone who was a client/customer of webreseller to file a complaint with the FBI/IC3 to stop them from running their billing system and attempting to steal more and hopefully bring what is an obvious crime now to the attention of the authorities.
You can file a complaint here https://complaint.ic3.gov/ctf.aspx It takes all of about 5 minutes to fill out the form. The more of us who do file a complaint the more likely it is that proper action is taken swiftly.
If you can include their phone numbers, addresses, IP addresses, email copies etc etc it helps as well. |
| Posted by SavConDan, 01-11-2010, 05:32 PM |
Got this email from PAETEC this morning and thought that I would post it here so that those of you who haven't contacted them or heard from them have an idea of where they are coming from and what they plan to do (or NOT do).
--->"Greetings-
I'm sorry for the inconvenience you are experiencing. Due to issues with Webreseller, their service is inactive at this time. We have heard from numerous clients of theirs. This issue has been discussed with senior management, our legal department, and other departments within PAETEC. At this time, service that we provide to Webreseller is to remain inactive until Webreseller works out their issues with us and devises a plan of action to resolve said issues. Due to legal restraints we can not access their equipment to provide any data for their clients. We do not own that equipment or manage it. We only provided a location for them to store their equipment as well as the means to hook their network up to the Internet. Unfortunately, many of their clients did not keep backups of their data and is causing crippling effects to their business models. I've attempted finding solutions on our end to assist but all have come to a stand still. We are waiting on some type of resolution from the owners of Webreseller.
If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to contact PAETEC Data Support at any time. We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your convenience.
Best Regards
Eddie Forstoffer
Data Services Supervisor
PAETEC
877-315-3278 Toll Free
DataSupport@paetec.com
Our mission is to be the premier communications
partner for businesses by delivering quality voice,
data and Internet services and by exceeding
expectations for customer care." <-----
Doesn't look like they are going to do the "right thing". Must be a CYA situation or else they are going to hold our data 'hostage' to try to leverage money out of Paul Rice and Seth Hak.
Has anyone checked on the legalities for PAETEC? I can't believe that Rice or Hak would have any problem with PAETEC giving us access to the data.
Looks like the hardware the files are stored on is in PAETEC's possession, tho.
Anyone got anything new? |
| Posted by Everyday, 01-11-2010, 05:41 PM |
This is standard operating procedure for any colo provider. While I can certainly sympathize with all of you, there's nothing PAETEC was or is going to do. Not to mention there would be almost no way for PAETEC to know which server is which to get anyone's data, even if they decided to get involved. They certainly can't do anything other than turn on the power/connectivity. They can't remove hardware and send it to customers who don't own that hardware.
The issue is that Paul/Seth haven't paid the bill and PAETEC shut off connectivity, and most likely power, to the servers. I certainly hope you all get your data back but you're in an unfortunate situation. From a providers point of view I can even sympathize with PAETEC. I'm sure they would like to have the additional business that is all the former webreseller customers but from a legal standpoint they can't just take over. Most likely they will eventually sue Paul/Seth/webreseller entity and then liquidate the equipment. |
| Posted by smirk100, 01-22-2010, 06:36 PM |
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Anyone been able to get their data as I have heard some people got to access their data. I just dont know who and why. Let me know. I know they contacted the accounting department at Paetec. |
| Posted by domiii, 02-18-2010, 07:01 PM |
Anything going on?
Anybody get access to their data?
Update us!!!! |
| Posted by SavConDan, 02-26-2010, 10:25 PM |
What has anyone heard from PAETEC? Is there anyone who has talked to an attorney to discuss the possibility of a lawsuit...class action or otherwise?
I have lost most of my clients and I am working a LOT of hours for free rebuilding websites that I could very easily have been backed up on MY system BEFORE Paul Rice and Seth Hak (sic)decided to disappear from the face of the planet had they informed me that my on-server backups wouldn't be accessible.
Would appreciate an update from anyone... |
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