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Review of NationVoice.com
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Posted by Joseph_M, 01-27-2006, 08:24 PM This is concerning NationVoice.com, a provider of Ventrilo Hosting services, and Ventrilo Reseller services. I'm not one to use "reseller" services normally, I prefer to deal with suppliers directly. However NationVoice had a fairly good rate on their plans, what looked to be a comprehensive control panel, and an api for integration purposes. I signed up with their lowest package on the 10th of January, so as to give them a try without risking too much. This was a 100-slot plan, costing $29.95 monthly, with a $9.95 setup fee, bringing the total to $39.90 for the first month. After signing up, the confirmation message on-screen stated that they offered same-day setup, and that if it was not set up by this time to contact them. [b]13th Jan.[/b[ After several days of waiting, I attempted to contact them (13th Jan), with no reply. 15th Jan. I updated the ticket stating that unless I received a refund by the following day, I would contact PayPal and open a Dispute there, as I was very unhappy with their Customer Service. --- At this point I assumed that they were either a) Illegitimate or b) Just plain lazy Neither of which I had no desire to be associated with. 16th Jan. Having received no reply within the 24 hours given, I proceded with the PayPal Dispute. Several hours later, I was informed that there was a delay with the account, and that if I wanted a refund then that would be "fine", but that if I'd rather then they would give me 50 extra slots free of charge as an apology. Daniel J, the "Owner" then contacted me via AIM, and I accepted the extra slots, as I still wanted to see what their actual service was like. I then received a detailed Welcome E-Mail which was great, and proceded to login to my Control Panel. Their panel is extremely easy to use, and has functionality to be expected of a high quality system. However, I did notice that I did not have private IP addresses for 2 of their voice servers. One of these was coincidentally for the server location that I had agreed to donate a 50-slot server to a University Society ventrilo donation. I contacted Daniel via AIM about this, and he told me to open a ticket and they'd be updated in the morning, I opened a ticket and went to bed. 17th Jan. I checked the control panel, and the IPs had indeed been added, so I then created the account, gave the information to the Society board and assumed that everything was running perfectly. 18th Jan. The next day, I found that my account had been suspended due to the chargeback, which (admittedly) I had not yet cancelled, I immediately logged into paypal and cancelled the chargeback, and updated them as to the situation. They stated that they now had limited access to PayPal and as such couldn't tell if the situation was resolved, and that they were having to provide PayPal with company information. I again apologised. Repeated attempts to get in touch with them was met with no response. IMs and E-Mails were sent requesting refunds. 25th Jan. I received an invoice for the month of Feb from NationVoice. I ignored it. 26th Jan. My ticket was updated with "Paypal issues resolved. Your account has been unsuspended." 207 hours after it was originally opened. 27th Jan. I open a new ticket requesting a refund as I have had literally no usage of the service for the amount that I paid, and I did not believe everyone at NationVoice to be over the age of 18, thus making contracts void. Also asking why there is no customer support between the hours of 9am & 6pm. I also request that they remove all of my personal information from their system. It is met with a response from Daniel J stating that according to their Terms of Service they do NOT issue refunds. That they won't remove any of my information for 7 years due to "tax reasons", and that they were in the right to suspend my account. I then replied stating that they did not have to hold my personal information for taxation. I have received no further information since then. Overall They have a fairly decent control panel, BUT no support whatsoever. I can understand delays of several days when I order stationery supplies, but not in the hosting industry, which relies on speedy communications, uptimes and SLAs, and this is even more-so the case in VOIP chat. I have never encountered such incompetent support staff even when I've visited other countries and not spoken the local language. I would give this company an overall score of 2/10, and a huge warning to steer clear to all. Any questions/comments, please feel free to leave them here and I'll answer them as best I can.
Posted by Bryc3, 01-27-2006, 09:03 PM They do have really nice "nonreseller" ventrilo servers, however.
Posted by NixMaster, 01-27-2006, 11:24 PM At no time did I say we were in the right to suspend your account. Please refer back to your support ticket and read again. I stated your account is set for suspension on 2/1/2006 due to that cancellation request. As far as the dispute, What do you expect? Paypal is very slow, we did not release your account until Paypal released your funds to us. This is not our fault. As far as a refund, as per our TOS we do not issue refunds. No where on our site does it say instant setups on reseller accounts, it says normal setup time is within 24 hours. This is why we gave you an additional 50 slots on your 100 slot reseller account free of charge since we did not get you setup in the promised time. When you have a problem with a company, you should really post ALL the facts, not just what makes them look bad. Thanks, Daniel J NationVoice.com Last edited by NixMaster; 01-27-2006 at 11:32 PM.
Posted by Joseph_M, 01-28-2006, 10:02 AM Please tell me which facts I missed? Other than your blatant lying to PayPal during the dispute "customer has opened subscription for services purchased the past 5 months" Since when was I a customer for 5 months? "Thank You.....In conclusion, this customer files this dispute just hours after ordering our services" Not hours, DAYS. Thank you for reminding me about that, I REALLY think its important that everyone knows about companies that fill out financial documentation fraudulently.
Posted by AHFBWEB, 01-28-2006, 10:49 AM I am curious about the comment that says there is no support from 9 am to 6 pm, I find it odd that you hit on every point that you did not agree on but not this. Are we to assume that this is actually the norm for your company?
Posted by Shaw Networks, 01-28-2006, 03:58 PM He posted all the facts you missed in his post and it looks like both sides are manipulating the truth a bit.
Posted by NixMaster, 01-28-2006, 04:02 PM No we have support staff on about 20 hours per day. I spoke to this person above multiple times on AIM. Any support ticket he ever opened was responded to quickly: Log for Ticket: 1055 Ticket Submitted: 01/16/2006 11:23:01 pm Reply Submitted: 01/17/2006 05:02:02 am Time between event: 5 hrs 39 mins This ticket is in reference to the IP's. As I explained to him on AIM we were out of IP's in the 2 locations and he would have them in the morning. He had them 5 1/2 hours later. Log for Ticket: 1067 Ticket Submitted: 01/27/2006 06:44:31 pm Reply Submitted: 01/27/2006 06:49:17 pm Time between event: 4 mins He also had my AIM on which he attempted to contact me on 1 time, I replied. These things above saying he tried emailing us multiple times, is a lie. All E-mails sent to NationVoice.com are replied to. As far as you saying we defrauded paypal, I'm not sure what you mean by this, I didnt deal with the dispute. I just checked the status.
Posted by Joseph_M, 01-28-2006, 04:43 PM Daniel, you claim that you have "Support Staff on about 20 hours per day", yet you are the only staff member that I have ever dealt with, the same going for a colleague who has a standard ventrilo server with NationVoice. As for contacting you on AIM "1 time", my trillian logs say differently, I've changed my AIM ID for privacy purposes. And I did in fact e-mail resellers@nationvoice.com on more than one occasion. You in fact told me on AIM that you were only available after 6pm EST, unfortunately I do not have the original logs available, or I would post them as evidence. Also, maybe this is just my inexperience as far as US-law goes, so please correct me if I am wrong, but I find it strange that NationVoice.com is as far as I can tell 3 or 4 legal entities. Nation Voice Communications LLC Nation Voice Communications Internet Services, Inc Nation Voice LLC & NationVoice LLC Which one is correct? Also, it is just my humble opinion that when you go to such lengths to provide anonymity for your resellers, yet when you suspend them you broadcast "X is a Reseller of NationVoice.com and has been SUSPENDED". I'm sorry, but your company in this instance simply personifies unprofessionalism Finally, for the sake of completeness, general support ticket information is listed below. Subject: Setup Not Completed. Created: 01/13/2006 12:02:50 pm Reply Received: 01/16/2006 04:56:42 pm Satisfactorily Closed: 01/16/2006 10:44:05 pm Subject: IP Addresses Created: 01/16/2006 11:23:01 pm Reply Received: 01/17/2006 05:02:02 am Satisfactorily Closed: 01/17/2006 05:02:02 am Subject: An IMMEDIATE Refund Created: 01/27/2006 06:44:31 pm Reply Received: 01/27/2006 06:49:17 pm Satisfactorily Closed: Not Currently Resolved.
Posted by NixMaster, 01-28-2006, 04:53 PM NationVoice LLC is the correct legal name. Resellers@NationVoice.com is our support system, any email in there we can both see at resellers.nationvoice.com/ under closed support tickets. The reason why the suspended page is show Nationvoice.com is for the simple fact of a reseller not paying or filing a dispute, or anything not listed. People are still able to go and seek Ventrilo service else ware. We have over 11 staff members with NationVoice. I'm the reseller department manager, I oversee everything. Any ticket on particular resellers or pertaining to a particular subject is assigned to me. All of your tickets required me to deal with it. Again another lie, to be honest, I do no support tickets on the standard client side of NationVoice unless it has to do with a technical problem the other techs can not fix.
Posted by Joseph_M, 01-28-2006, 05:04 PM Need I say any more? If you want to: be called a liar several times with no grounds to do so be lied to about setup times be provided with inadequate service not receive ANY of what you paid for Then sign up with NationVoice, if you want HIGH QUALITY service, I'd suggest you look elsewhere. www.TypeFrag.com provide brilliant service, and I cannot fault them.
Posted by NixMaster, 01-28-2006, 05:15 PM Please explain to me how I do not have grounds to call you a liar? Anytime I did, it was for a statement you made that was a lie. You need to have your friend go back and look, I assure you it most likely was not me that answered his tickets. Setup times, this was our fault. I've admited this. This is why we gave you extra slots to compensate. You only received inadequate service due to your actions. Ask any of our resellers, uptime is over 99.9%. The attached screenshot will show you what type of service we offer. Show me another ventrilo company that can have these types of stable uptimes with no lag. Thanks, Daniel J. NationVoice.com Attached Thumbnails
Posted by NixMaster, 01-28-2006, 05:17 PM Joseph, I wish you the best of luck with typefrag. Sorry things didnt work out.
Posted by Trophimus, 01-29-2006, 10:21 AM NationVoice must be one of the very "few" hosts offering no money back guarantee whatsoever . Cheers,
Posted by ldcdc, 01-29-2006, 11:31 AM It's well within their rights not to offer one though.
Posted by Trophimus, 01-29-2006, 01:25 PM I know. Its still market worthy to have one .
Posted by rmcadams, 07-24-2006, 10:42 AM I must say my experience has been much different... I really have had a great experience with my reseller account there.
Posted by Swiftstrike, 09-30-2007, 11:45 AM My experience has been absolutely fabulous. Not only did they take several days to sort out my slots, and server type when i upgraded, but I then received three(3) different charges from them for the same exact service. I saw that this must be in error, so i contacted them and got blown off twice with automated emails. Then i come to find out that they do not offer refunds and simply credit accounts with more time. This means that Nationvoice can charge you as much as they feel and you can't do anything about it. I told them I work for a large corporation bank and that I know, especially according to reg EE laws, that this is illegal as all get out. Well, I get a very sarcastic letter back, I'll let you read it: Joshua, Once again I will ask you to reference your closed support ticket for a response. You seem to be beating the same old stone here when your first ticket was responded to. Are we impressed you work at a bank, no sir. I spent 9 years at Goldman Sachs. Certainly your small town banking laws do not threaten me. If you continue to email us over and over with the same concern, however with an added touch of sarcasm, then I will have no choice but to pull your account. Thank You Once again, in a language you prefer. CHECK YOUR CLOSED SUPPORT TICKETS FOR A RESOLUTION TO THIS ISSUE. If you want to view the entire log of this ticket log onto our client management site at our site with your username and password. If you have any questions regarding this response or any other support questions please feel free to contact us. Thank you, NationVoice.com I requested that they immediately close my account and informed them that I see no reason not to pursue legal action. I am a veteran of the Iraq war twice, a model citizen, a man with a family, my credibility can't be touched. I'm looking forward to their next threatening e-mail, Ill jsut add it to my documents to present to a lawyer. P.S. I provided 3 forms of contact information including a phone number, I suppose they don't want to be bothered with "small town folk" like me... Bottom Line: Nationvoice = bad.
Posted by eclouds, 09-30-2007, 02:13 PM Back when it was known as NationGaming, smaller clients would not get the support that bigger clients get and sometimes were ignored.
Posted by NixMaster, 09-30-2007, 05:44 PM As a service provider hosting thousands upon thousands of clients, the law of averages will dictate that a bad seed or apple in the bunch will spoil the whole crop. Well here is a perfect example of such a client. Swiftstrike has given his version of his experience. I will now give the "truthful" and documented version of the story along with a time line of his account activity. **Note that each support ticket was responded to in less than 30 minutes. Many of you in the service sector know to manage over 20k clients (for those of you that do), and offer a guaranteed 30 minute response time along with the great service is not something that is easily attainable. On average we get 300-500 support tickers daily. To maintain this superior level of support, we have stationed support level staff alternating 6 hours shifts. Including weekends and holidays. In most cases, the average support ticket response time is less than 10 minutes. To rebut eclouds statement of smaller clients vs. bigger clients back when NationVoice was known as NationGaming, my response is simply such: We were a startup with no more than 100 clients back then in 2002. No one client was bigger or smaller than the next. We were also a game server provider with a completely different business model. My assumption would be to guess you were a client of ours at the time. Well back to the issue at hand. The following is a chronological time line of the events leading up to Swiftstrikes (Joshua ******) post. Account Ordered on July 30th, 2007. 25 user ventrilo server @ 10.99 First support ticket was submitted on August 9th, as follows: Joshua ****** Submitted: 08/09/2007 08:33:34 pm Opened Ticket i JUST bought another server and it told me to validate my email.. i haven't received anything to validate it with.. yet ive received a receipt. Im confused on how to obtain my second server. Here's the receipt: Dear Joshua ******, Payment receipt for Invoice #72000, sent on 08/09/2007. Company: NationVoice.com. Total Charge: $4.99 You may review your invoice history at any time by logging in at: https://www.nationvoice.com/clients If you have any questions regarding your account, please feel free to contact us at Billing[at]NationVoice.com. Note: This email will serve as an official receipt for this payment. NationVoice.com Billing[at]NationVoice.com Our response time on this ticket - 3 minutes Justin V Submitted: 08/09/2007 08:37:14 pm Time between event: 3 mins Your server has been installed. Please use your control panel as a reference for the servers status and information. As always, the support team at NationVoice always strives to make our customers experience the best possible. You can always be particular we are here to assist you, and as always we stand behind our response time of 30 minutes or less on all support tickets. Thats the Nation Voice way ! Your second support ticket submitted almost 5 minutes after the first support ticket, clearly indicating you did not check your email or closed support ticket section of your control panel. Had you done so, you would have seen a response from Justin V as clearly shown above. Yet you submitted the following: Joshua ****** Submitted: 08/09/2007 08:37:01 pm Opened Ticket i JUST bought another server and it told me to validate my email.. i haven't recieved anything to validate it with.. yet ive received a receipt. Im confused on how to obtain my second server. Here's the receipt: Dear Joshua ******, Payment receipt for Invoice #72000, sent on 08/09/2007. Company: NationVoice.com. Total Charge: $4.99 You may review your invoice history at any time by logging in at: https://www.nationvoice.com/clients If you have any questions regarding your account, please feel free to contact us at Billing[at]NationVoice.com. Note: This email will serve as an official receipt for this payment. NationVoice.com Billing[at]NationVoice.com Response time on this ticket - 1 minute Justin V Submitted: 08/09/2007 08:38:09 pm Time between event: 1 min Joshua, Please refer to your control panel. Keep in mind at this point you have 2 servers with NationVoice under the same user login. Your next support ticket appears on August 26th: Joshua ****** Submitted: 08/26/2007 11:13:34 am Opened Ticket I need to cancel this server please, I would like to keep my other one named "Affliction Guild" THank you! Response time on this ticket - 25 minutes Craig V Submitted: 08/26/2007 11:49:15 am Time between event: 25 mins Dear Valued Customer, Your cancellation request has been received successfully. We want to Thank You for your business and look forward to hosting for you again in the future. We hope you have enjoyed the services of Nation Voice during your stay with us. Please be sure to cancel any Paypal subscriptions once your service with NationVoice has been terminated. As always, the support team at NationVoice always strives to make our customers experience the best possible. You can always be particular we are here to assist you, and as always we stand behind our response time of 30 minutes or less on all support tickets. That's the Nation Voice way ! Warm Regards, Your friends at Nation Voice Now you are left with 1 server on your account. Correct so far? On the 1st of September, our automated billing support panel opened a support ticket on behalf of your account stating that your PayPal subscription payment had failed. This can happen for various reasons, most commonly NO FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE. Submitted: 09/10/2007 06:04:49 am Opened Ticket Recurring payment for invoice 72000, corresponding to package "NationVoice.com - Subscription" has failed. Reason: unknown. YOUR PAYPAL PAYMENT WAS NOT SENT Account Status: Suspended until payment is received Suspension Reason: Your paypal subscription has failed. Your services have been suspended until payment has been received in full. Send your payment today to paypal[at]nationvoice.com Getting your server back online is simple. Please send a direct payment to us at paypal[at]nationvoice.com for the amount of your invoice due. Once you pay this amount, your server will be back online almost instantly. **NOTE** You must reply to this email once payment is sent, so we know to put your server back online. Amount Due - 10.99 Any questions, please let us know -----This is the email you were sent, at which time you decided to switch over to credit card funding for your account. We were able to capture payment for your account via a credit card which you placed on file through your control panel login. ** Keep in mind your paypal subscription is still "active". Just because a subscription payment failed, does not dictate the subscription is canceled. As anyone reading this who accepts paypal acknowledges. Now here is what your account gets interesting. You now have a credit card on file to fund your 25 user ventrilo server at 10.99 per month, as well as TWO (2) active subscriptions. You were notified in the previous support ticket to cancel the previous subscription which was for the add on account (now canceled). Your next support tickets is what started your dilemma and the events to follow: Joshua ****** Submitted: 09/26/2007 05:32:06 pm Opened Ticket First you guys double charged me by charging my paypal and my credit card at the same time. Now.. youve billed me twice for the exact same service, once on the 21'st and once on the 24th. I work at a bank, please do not make me put a stop payment on this. I have been more than happy with nationvoice up until this last week. I would like two 10.99 charges refunded. ---------------------------------- Server: 65.254.40.186:3860 (NV17742) Response time on this ticket 29 minutes Don C Submitted: 09/26/2007 06:01:32 pm Time between event: 29 mins Thank You for bringing this to our attention. I am going to escalate this ticket to our billing department for proper review, As well I am placing a temporary credit on your account for your next invoice due. This credit will stay in place as a credit toward your next month until the refund is issued. Our billing department as well in the event of a double charge will credit that back to your account. * Note if you have any active paypal subscriptions, please see to it that you cancel them. As always, the support team at NationVoice always strives to make our customers experience the best possible. You can always be particular we are here to assist you, and as always we stand behind our response time of 30 minutes or less on all support tickets. Thats the Nation Voice way ! If you have any other questions or concerns in the future, please do not hesitate to contact our support department for assistance. -Don C. NationVoice Support Team www.nationvoice.com Take note, at this point your refund was issued in full!!!....Yes that's correct, issued in full. Back to your credit card. We just issued the credit back to the card itself. you were also emailed a receipt of this refund. At this juncture, this issue should be closed and resolved. Done Done Done!...It only gets worse for you Joshua. My assumption here is that your email address on file, joshua.****** [at] blackrockconsulting.org is filtering out our support ticket responses. Spam filter anyone?? This should not matter however, as all of your support tickets as well our responses are logged in your control center under "customer service". Funny as how you can click the customer service tab to submit your support tickets, however you can check the closed support ticket for responses?...Let me finish Your next ticket: Log for Ticket #40175 Submitted: 2007-09-26 17:32:06 Action: Ticket Opened By: Joshua ****** First you guys double charged me by charging my paypal and my credit card at the same time. Now.. youve billed me twice for the exact same service, once on the 21'st and once on the 24th. I work at a bank, please do not make me put a stop payment on this. I have been more than happy with nationvoice up until this last week. I would like two 10.99 charges refunded. ---------------------------------- Server: 65.254.40.186:3860 (NV17742) I would like an update on this please ---------------------------------- Server: 65.254.40.186:3860 (NV17742) Our response to you Josh was as follows: Don C Submitted: 09/29/2007 12:36:49 am Time between event: 4 hrs 50 mins Please do not submit duplicate tickets. This issue was responded to when you first submitted the ticket. Please check your closed tickets in the control center At this point, I am thinking to myself. Is this client not getting our emails? If not I'm quite sure he is reading my support ticket responses in his control panel. But thats not the case as the next ticket shows: This morning: Joshua ****** Submitted: 09/30/2007 10:01:17 am Opened Ticket Allow me to put this in a language you might better prefer. You have sent me 2 automated e-mails promising to forward my complaint to billing and neither have been answered in like return. You overcharged me TWICE in the same day. I want two 10.99 refunds to my credit card or paypal in 24 hours or i yank the plug and you get 0 dollars from me ever again. I will then pursue a stop-payment and interrate refund through regulation EE of the federal mandating courts concerning internet transactions. Remember folks, I work at a bank. ---------------------------------- Server: 65.254.40.186:3860 (NV17742) Response time on this ticket 33 minutes Don C Submitted: 09/30/2007 10:34:26 am Time between event: 33 mins Joshua, Once again I will ask you to reference your closed support ticket for a response. You seem to be beating the same old stone here when your first ticket was responded to. Are we impressed you work at a bank, no sir. I spent 9 years at Goldman Sachs. Certainly your small town banking laws do not threaten me. If you continue to email us over and over with the same concern, however with an added touch of sarcasm, then I will have no choice but to pull your account. Thank You Once again, in a language you prefer. CHECK YOUR CLOSED SUPPORT TICKETS FOR A RESOLUTION TO THIS ISSUE. At this point, I am assuming this client is either purposely doing this. We have had competitors act in such a manner in the past, only to rouse a rude response to post on message boards. When you are on top in your field, you have to expect this to happen. None-the-less Josh, I am left exhausted with your tickets. Your last ticket only hours ago was the toping on the cake for me. This only shows your capacity and propensity to be not only rude and belligerent, but as well quite ignorant I'm sorry to say. Joshua ****** Submitted: 09/30/2007 11:18:58 am Opened Ticket Since you chose to simply close my last email and not even respond: Close my account with nationvoice immediately. I will be pursuing Regulation EE action against your company. I chose to disregard the rumors and the reviews that your company, specifically Daniel J, it's owner, were both irrefutable sources, i see i was in error. You will be hearing from both my bank (which i work for) and my lawyer shortly. I suggest you gather detailed information about our transactions as I have, you will need them. My contact information is below. As a veteran of the Iraq war, and an outstanding civilian with a web-based company myself, i hope you don't underestimate my credibility. All it would have taken was to refund two 10.99 charges you charged me without warning or reason, instead you are going to drag this into a legal battle. I wish you the best of luck in future endeavors. Joshua ****** joshua.******[at]us.army.mil ***-***-**** ---------------------------------- Server: 65.254.40.186:3860 (NV17742) Response time on this support ticket - 2 hours, 27 minutes ( I have to laugh over a cup of coffee prior to responding ) Don C Submitted: 09/30/2007 01:46:06 pm Time between event: 2 hrs 27 mins Joshua, Once again, check your spam box. Seems that my responses to ALL of your emails have gone un noticed. Being a bank employee, as well a veteran of the war, I would assume that common sense would tell you to check your closed support tickets. You will see that each of them have been responded to and that your refund was issued accordingly upon your first support ticket. Your ranting and raving that following only told me that you would not checking your support tickets, rather expecting an email response. Ever think your spam filter was the reason for not receiving any responses? I dont think your credibility is in question here, rather your intelligence and lack of common sense. Not to mention an ounce of respect or humility. Should I think a man of such nobility would apologize?, I doubt it.. At any rate, I have shut down your account as you requested. As well I welcome any dispute from your credit card company. Keep in mind we have recorded your IP address as point of order. This will prove the charge was indeed authorized. So go ahead and start the legal battle my friend. Rest assured, I need not to work in a bank to understand banking laws. Nine years as a Goldman Sachs money manager and a law school graduate well qualifies me for this battle. As insurance, I will also forward this to your .mil email. Lets see if that goes un-noticed as well. Best wishes John C CEO/Owner & Co-Founder NationVoice Communications In conclusion, Mr bank employee, man of military, e-web consultant and/or any other titles you may choose to go by. As you can see I have taken 20 minutes out of my Sunday to rebut your fruitless claims. Your threats of legal suit, attorneys, etc have all fell on deaf ears. You find an attorney who will represent you regarding your 10$ tort claim, or due to your lack of knowledge regarding paypal subscriptions, and I will give you a free account here at NationVoice for the rest of your natural life. In essence, this is all your wrongdoing, not ours. Whatever position it is you hold at this bank you are employed at, I sure hope it is not one of customer service or anything remotely close to dealing with customers face to face. If you have anything further to add, you can reach me directly at owners [at] nationvoice.com I will also assume an apology is out of the questions here Joshua, or shall I address you as Mr. Credibility? Best Regards, John Cannarozzo CEO and Co-Founder NationVoice Communications LLC Last edited by NixMaster; 09-30-2007 at 05:50 PM.
Posted by IHSL, 09-30-2007, 05:57 PM Daniel, If you have thousands of customers, then just chalk this one instance off as a blip; don't turn it in to a war on some public forum. You are only hurting yourself. Professionalism is key in this industry, you are showing no professionalism whatsoever. Resolve it away from the forum, or both parties should walk away. WHT is not a battleground for customers and providers to settle their differences. Simon
Posted by Swiftstrike, 09-30-2007, 07:28 PM I am well impressed that you can copy and paste.... Now.. you consider this "resolved" Had it been, and should it become now I will in fact apologize. I do not like to take matters this far, but you had taken 2 10.99 payments against me for no reason and STILL have not refunded anything despite your claims. I just got off the phone with my banks corporate helpline and they have confirmed you gave no such refund. Your idea of a refund, according to your TOS, is to credit my account with extra months or credits.. but I no longer wish to have your company anywhere near my life. You need to refund the money. The bank did, however, assure me that come tomorrow morning, I can file a fraudulent charges claim against your company and in fact get my money back, so in a case where i will get my money one way or the other, save yourself some paper work and just send me my damned 20 dollars. I am not going to sit here and list off all the things wrong with your company, i don't even have to...because any person that types in "nationvoice reviews" in google will get several bad reviews of your company. Good luck Mr. "I R Corporate America that believes he can get away with anything hiding behind an LLC" With two simple posts you have proven to the little guy, the ones that actually make your company happen, that you don't deserve our money. You want an apology? Give me my money and I'll publically apologize however you wish. Until then, expect a fraudulent charges claim.
Posted by NixMaster, 09-30-2007, 11:22 PM Joshua, at this juncture I feel it's safe to say that anyone reading this thread carefully will be able to ascertain the following: 1. Your only intention here was to purposely harass, as well slander our company with your fruitless claims which hold no truth what-so-ever. As well when a user googles or searches anything related to "nationvoice reviews", or "best ventrilo servers", rest assured that you will read nothing but positive experiences with clients. 2. Considering you work in a bank ( or do you? ) you would understand it takes anywhere from 2-5 business days to receive a refund which was processed back to your debit card. Let's do the math now. Your refund was issued on the 26th. Today is a Sunday, the 30th to be exact. Now that means only 2 full business days have passed. As the refund receipt you received states: Below is your processed refund receipt confirmation: Transaction Confirmation Transaction 17558474 has been successfully ACCEPTED by the system. Below is a summary: Refund Receipt Transaction ID: 17558474 Payment Method: Credit/Debit Card Amount: (-10.99) Customer Name: Joshua XXXXXX Please allow up to 2-5 business days for your refund to clear in your account. Thank You again for your patience in this matter In conclusion, NationVoice bears no responsibility for your lack of forgetting to cancel your paypal subscription. PayPal will confirm that it is the "clients" responsibility to manage his/her own recurring subscriptions. The "merchant" i.e NationVoice Communications is not responsible for clients active subscriptions. It seems that there is a lot of confusion when it comes to PayPal subscriptions, we will try to clear this up for you here. A PayPal subscription is not "charged or billed" the same way a credit card would be on an account, it is simply a set of instructions that the PayPal account holder gives to PayPal. This is explained below. A PayPal subscription is created by the PayPal account holder and tells PayPal to send a particular amount of money to a particular person or company on a particular date. Whether or not this subscription continues is entirely up to the PayPal account holder, the person named as the recipient of the money has no access to the PayPal user's account. If someone discontinues their service or agreement with the named person (or company) the subscription was created for, then they also need to cancel the subscription, PayPal has no way to know whether your service or agreement is still in effect unless you inform them of the status.What that means in a nutshell is that should you stop the service that the subscription was originally created for, you must also cancel the subscription or it will remain in force until such time as you cancel it. Additionally, please don't confuse your service (with us in this case) with your PayPal subscription; they are two separate things. We hope this helps clear up some of the confusion. Here are the instructions on how to cancel your paypal subscription To cancel an 'Active' Subscription: 1. Log in to your account at https://www.paypal.com by entering your email address and password in the Member Log In box. 2. Click the 'History' subtab. 3. Choose the 'Subscriptions' field from the 'Show' drop-down menu. 4. Check the 'From' box and change date back 1 year. 5. Click 'Search'. 6. To view the details of a specific 'Subscription Creation', click 'Details' in the Details column. 7. At the bottom of this page, click 'Cancel Subscription'. 8. On the confirmation page click 'Cancel Subscription' again. By completing these instructions you will successfully cancel any future payments to NationVoice Communications. As well please review our Terms or Service which can be found at http://www.nationvoice.com/TOS.php Hope this clears up your confusion. If you intention is to remain on the offensive with slanderous comments regarding our organization, then you leave us with no choice but to pursue legal avenues for deliberate defamation of character, as well possible fraudulent chargeback submissions through your credit card company. Theft still is a crime where I grew up. I'm sure this would not go over so well in your "banking" environment. Note to IHSL* I do agree with you 100%. My intentions were not to turn this into a public forum soap opera. In hindsite, we will not allow such remarks regarding our level of service to go unanswered. As you know, in this competitive market, these types of threads could influence a clients decision one way or another. In that regards, it is my responsibility to only defend the business model we proudly built and work hard to maintain.
Posted by SourceRadio, 09-30-2007, 11:23 PM My company has worked with NationVoice for well over two years now and we have had no problems during that time. We have a variety of services provided to us by NationVoice including several large scale Ventrilo Servers, an entire half rack of dedicated servers co-located within the network, two 400 slot reseller accounts and they have also went above and beyond in the past and provided us content mirrors for high traffic content. In my time working with this company I feel they have been fair and honest and 100% direct with us from the start. I found this thread while browsing the forums for a new GSP provider for my company. Let me point out that in any buisness relationship regardless of being 'company to client', 'company to company' or vice versa there are always two parties involved. When there is an error in communication this error often leads to miscommunication on both sides. Reading your claim Swiftstrike it would appear that the biggest error in miscommunication was patience. You were unwilling to follow the appropriate steps to obtain the information you requested. You also failed to properly establish and maintain a PayPal subscription which is required in order to maintain services provided to you by NationVoice. NationVoice did have a technical difficulty with billing and promptly addressed the problem, however once again your impatience lead to more problems. I understand your need to voice your opinon and use a particular tone when you feel that you have been wronged. And I also understand that the email that was delivered to you from NationVoice was not as professional as it could have been. Behind the company lies a good group of hard working individuals and just like you and me, they have good days and bad days. Whenever I have had a problem with my services they have been promptly addressed and corrected. You make mention of the 'several' topics, posts, etc. that can be found on google.com by searching 'NationVoice Feedback', I would also like to address the THOUSANDS of positive remarks that litter the web and have secured NationVoice as the leading provider of voice communication services and more. I took a close look at this thread in its entirety, and given my expierence I have to disagree with you 100%. And can only hope that in the future you develop the patience required to work with any buisness whether it is online, or not. Erik Kehl - CEO/Founder SourceRadio LLC
Posted by eclouds, 10-01-2007, 12:24 AM Rephrased sentence] I was not one of your clients. As a matter of fact, I don't recall having you on the staff as I was the co-founder of NationGaming so I don't quite understand why you say "we" and "ours" as you were not part of it. I will say no more as I do not want a can of worms to be opened. Last edited by eclouds; 10-01-2007 at 12:32 AM.
Posted by NixMaster, 10-01-2007, 12:47 AM I (Daniel) am simply posting these posts for my business partner (co-owner of NationVoice Communications, LLC) John Cannarozzo which was & still is the owner of NationGaming.com. Simply for the fact he does not have a WHT account. Proof: Registrant: Nation Voice Communications LLC 91 West 12th St Bayonne, New Jersey 07002 United States Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com) Domain Name: NATIONGAMING.COM Created on: 01-Dec-03 Expires on: 01-Dec-07 Last Updated on: 27-Oct-05 Administrative Contact: Cannarozzo, John owners@nationvoice.com Nation Voice Communications LLC 91 West 12th St Bayonne, New Jersey 07002 United States 201XXXXXX Fax -- Technical Contact: Cannarozzo, John owners@nationvoice.com Nation Voice Communications LLC 91 West 12th St Bayonne, New Jersey 07002 United States 201XXXXXX Fax -- Domain servers in listed order: NS1.NATIONVOICE.COM NS2.NATIONVOICE.COM
Posted by Swiftstrike, 10-01-2007, 07:23 AM Dear "i went to lawschool and im threatening to sue you for slander", It's called Libel, not slander. I wanna know which lawschool you attended so that when and if you are dumb enough to press this I can steer clear of a lawyer from that school. The "e-mail" you supposedly sent with the above information about a refund and 2-5 days is not in any mailbox or any control panel i have access to. If you say you need 2-5 days to get me my money then so be it, i'll wait. i even offered an apology should the money actually come. I'm not counting on it.
Posted by Swiftstrike, 10-01-2007, 07:25 AM I have the e-mail now.. it came 11 minutes after you posted this on the forums. Smooth...must have been some kind of "hangup" with the mail system right?
Posted by Annex, 10-01-2007, 08:18 AM Hmm, that wasn't a rebut, that seemed to be an excuse for who didn't get any support. Albeit you say you didn't want this to be a forum soap opera, it is, and if i was ever to need a voice server, I wouldn't buy from someone who changes the topic when discussing previous weaknesses, or is creating drama. Lets save the creation of drama for the 12-14 year old kids, as this is the time of their lives when fighting battles is the most important thing to them. Just telling you from a 3rd party standpoint, it doesn't make your company look good to draw fights on.
Posted by bear, 10-01-2007, 03:28 PM This doesn't appear to be true. Member: NationGaming Post where he talks about the "Official Response from NationGaming Inc.": http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...0&postcount=36
Posted by Swiftstrike, 10-01-2007, 05:50 PM serviceATpaypal.com" ... AddMonday, October 1, 2007 8:38:38 AMTo:*********atyahoo.com Dear Joshua Witt, The payment for your subscription to NationVoice.com - Subscription failed because the funding source you chose is currently unavailable. NationVoice.com has been notified of this failed payment. We will try to make payment again on Oct 4, 2007. Please log in to your PayPal account and change your funding source for this subscription by going to the "History" subtab of the "My Account" tab and selecting the subscription in question. ----------------------------------- Subscription Details ----------------------------------- Amount: $6.99 USD Subscription Name: NationVoiceDOTcom - Subscription Subscription Number: S-5B8237848H510110J Custom Number: 70147_1_1 ----------------------------------- Contact Information ----------------------------------- Business Name: NationVoiceDOTcom Contact Email: SupportATNationVoice.com Contact Phone: Sincerely, PayPal ----------------------------- This is a new e-mail i got just today, paypal is informing me that nationvoice is trying to charge me a 4th time. I am promising you, publically right now, that if you charge me again you will regret it. I will eat the 20 dollar loss since your irreputable company can't seem to get it's act together.. but to charge me a 4th time after you shut down my account, im going to have a fit.
Posted by eclouds, 10-01-2007, 05:59 PM It looks like it is paypal trying to charge you. Since it appears you have a subscription and the payment failed, they will keep trying until it goes through. You would need to contact paypal for that one.
Posted by NixMaster, 10-01-2007, 06:25 PM Swiftstrike, As far as your refund, we are not Authorize.net, we do not send out the refund emails they do. As far as your paypal subscription payment that tried to process today, this is entirely on paypals side, they are trying to send us a subscription payment because you have yet to cancel your subscriptions. As John stated in another post you MUST CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO STOP FUTURE PAYMENTS! To help you out further, Here are the instructions on how to cancel your paypal subscription To cancel an 'Active' Subscription: 1. Log in to your account at https://www.paypal.com by entering your email address and password in the Member Log In box. 2. Click the 'History' subtab. 3. Choose the 'Subscriptions' field from the 'Show' drop-down menu. 4. Check the 'From' box and change date back 1 year. 5. Click 'Search'. 6. To view the details of a specific 'Subscription Creation', click 'Details' in the Details column. 7. At the bottom of this page, click 'Cancel Subscription'. 8. On the confirmation page click 'Cancel Subscription' again.
Posted by JordanJ, 10-01-2007, 07:39 PM You know - the vendor can login and cancel them to.
Posted by Andan, 10-01-2007, 08:58 PM Could we end this "flame" war already? I'm tired of going through this great resource forum and reading reviews where the customer and provider exchange long-winded "words" with one another for several pages. Just let the issue go and let everyone else decide for themselves. Review aside, I can understand both sides equally and would consider Nation Voice for my future Ventrilo needs, whenever that might be.
Posted by startawebhost, 10-02-2007, 01:25 AM You know Daniel, I understand that you have a no refund policy in place. I even understand that you are apparently making an exception to your refund policy for this client. You have also made it clear that the client can cancel his Paypal subscription, which of course he can. I have a question though that covers both of these clients that this long thread covers. Why not promptly give them the refund instead of waiting until people go ballistic on you? As has been mentioned already, you as a vendor can easily cancel the client's subscription. What benefit do you have in waiting for a client, who may or may not be technically challenged as far as Paypal goes, to cancel their own subscription? This will always be seen by the customer as bad service. There is no doubt in my mind that these two are the exception. The customers 'from hell' if you wish. It seems to me that getting rid of them right away with any and all means at your disposal is better for your health and peace of mind. It also isn't worth the negative publicity. If you treat others with respect even when they are being nasty to you, other people looking in will gain more respect for you. I think for everyone else, we can all learn from this experience.
Posted by Swiftstrike, 10-02-2007, 10:53 AM This will be my last post. I have recieved one of the two refunds, I'm not going to press the other one, it's not worth the hassle to deal with you. I offered that I would apologize if i recieved some form of compensation, well here it is. I apologize that we both drug this out on the forums, I apologize that i had to escalate it so far. As for the quality of the vent server I recieved from nationvoice, kudos.. I liked it very much. As my first few emails explained, i really liked nationvoice for their low costs and great servers, but the service killed our relationship. As for the paypal. I actually had 2, count them 2 subscriptions to your company. When i upgraded my server a month ago, you guys never cancelled the old billing. So in fact, i was billed 3 times for the 25 man server, and twice for the 15 man, when in fact both should have only been charged once. Thank god that paypal understood this when i called and got rid of the subscriptions for me. I also find it quite a hassle that you wouldnt refund two 10.99 charges, and i hade to actually call visa to start a claim for fraudulent charges, not until then did i even get anything, and i still havent gotten my whole refund. I'm done with nationvoice. I would not recommend them, but as so many others have said perhaps this was a once in a while thing and i just caught the brunt of it. Great servers, awesome costs, horrible if not the worst service. P.S. You challenged my credibility several times, claiming "veteran and banker, or are you?" i invite you to look up my service if you care, for your own affirmation. Shoot me an emaila nd ill give you any form of ID you care for. I spent two years in Iraq, and I like to believe it wasn't for naught. I suggest you make a personal apology, to yourself and not to me, for that trespass, perhaps thank a vet next time you see one, that would be enough for me.
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