Site5 Reseller: The good and the bad news!

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Posted by rootbug, 01-08-2005, 12:03 AM
As some of you may recall, I spent the past 2-3 weeks trying to figure out who I was going to use as my (long term) RESELLER. Here was my final list with Site5 being the winner: 1) Site5.com 2) HostGator.com 3) HostDime 4) ResellerZoom.com 5) (not worth mentioning) I ordered on Friday night and new ahead of time that they don't set up accounts nights and weekends. Late Monday PM my Reseller account got activated. By next day I had my "private" nameservers and domain live. I quickly started setting up account plans because I needed to migrate 2 accounts that were on eHost.com. I also set up a "test" account so I could see what a client would experience. Now comes the bad news. While Site5 offers your "Private DNS Servers" and this was VERY important to me. A simple look-up shows that the IP links back to Liquidweb.com (the host Site5 uses). Ironically, liquidweb offers a plan that competes with one of my plans (potential client issue). As an alternative, Site5 gives you another set of nameservers (both of which are not ideal for TRUE reseller hosting). While they advertise they offer WEBMAIL, they fail to mention how awkward it really is. To log into web mail you go to domain.com/webmail > that redirects you to domain.com:2095. After entering the password you are brought to a page that makes you choose between NeoMail, Horde, SquerrelMail. And if a client clicks the "click here for secure login"...a quick look will reveal Site5 Internet Solutions"...I know this because I had my client ask me "who is Site5" Sure I could buy my own SSL, but I don't want to be forced into it. Ohh well...damage control time. While I could manually install an email program, I'm not willing to do this for EVERY client I get. Defeats the advantages of Fantastico & the other automated installers. Now comes the good news: Their support (email only) is very fast. At times it took less than 15 minutes to answer back. Since I've only been with them for 5 days, I haven't had enough time to post more (positive) details. My opinion: Site5 would be great for general hosting (personal sites), but I'm not pleased about some of my findings as a reseller. Not to mention me needing to explain who Site5 is to my client. In todays competitive world, I need complete anonymity from the people I pay for hosting. Heck, Registerfly offers proxydomain service for $1. As for the webmail, more and more clients are wanting a simple way of checking their mail (port :80). Many companies firewalls block the ports needed to check webmail when sitting on Site5 hosting. This may be a limitation to CP, but a webhost like Site5 should have a better built in option availible. I hate to imagine having to start all over, but I might need to leave Site5 for a different host (offering what I need). I'm looking for: $20/mo to $25/mo Anonymous Nameserver yet private (ns1.mydomain.com) Simple webmail with not funky stuff 4GB / 60GB as a minimum 3 IPs ..and other bells & whistles I only have a very limited client base but they have been with we for 5 years and I'm a long-term kinda guy. It would be nice to step up and spend $35 to $50 per month for a better account, but it just isn't in the cards. Hell, I still have a DixieSys (personal) account (+3 years old). Argg...what to do...what to do...Hopefully I'll wake up and realize there is a simple solution (besides spend more elsewhere). Last edited by rootbug; 01-08-2005 at 12:11 AM.
Posted by rois, 01-08-2005, 12:13 AM
I'm in a similar shoes as you, thinking of signing up with site5 but have not done it yet. As for an alternative, hostingzoom.com might be a good one. Though do not take my words for it as I'm in a situation where I'm tossing between the two host myself thus have had no 'live' experience with them.
Posted by okihost, 01-08-2005, 12:29 AM
All cpanel servers I know of have the same webmail setup, there is however a direct link which you can provide your customers with and even setup a simple redirect like say www.domain.com/mail that points to the long url but it will go directly to one type of webmail ie: horde, squirrelmail etc with no option. Also the way most providers are setup is that I have my main domain.com for shared hosting and privatedomain.com setup with the domain proxy you mentioned, now there is no way for your clients to see who owns privatedomain.com and if they do an rdns on your IP's it will show they are going to ns?.privatedomain.com (assuming you are using aliased nameservers) but if they do a lookup on the IP address to see who it belongs to regardless it is going to go back to the datacenter provider who provides the upstream to your provider ie: I have my servers at EV1 so if they lookup the IP it is going to show they belong to EV1 and I do not think there is any way around this. Site5 has a good name around here and if you can get past those two small issues I am sure you will be pretty happy.
Posted by radv, 01-08-2005, 12:47 AM
What we do for this situation (if the reseller requests) is provide an rDNS lookup on our DNS servers so it gives the "illusion" that the reseller may have servers colocated with us and not just a reseller account.... Example: Doing an rDNS lookup on the resellers private DNS IP of 200.45.67.56 would look like this.... Asking a.root-servers.net... Asking indigo.arin.NET... Asking NS2.DATACENTER.NET... Asking ns1.radicalv.com... Answer: 200.45.67.56 PTR record: ns1.reseller.com
Posted by Jim_UK, 01-08-2005, 12:58 AM
Some providers will be willing to SWIP IP blocks to you. In my experience there aren't a whole lot who will do this though.
Posted by rootbug, 01-08-2005, 09:32 AM
As for the reverse DNS lookup, if mine were to link back to someone like EV1, I would have no problems. EV1 does not offer hosting that competes with what my clients get from me. EV1 is a TRUE reseller! Liquidweb.com however offers $15/mo personal hosting. Its basically a better offer then what I'm charging and may ruin my client(s) trust in me. A webhost that offers true RESELLER accounts should take all the proper steps to avoid this. I had stated that in my original post. Yes a redirect makes it easy for them to remember the URL. My 2 webmail concerns have nothing to do with redirects...yet it does add to the "cluncky" factor Non standard webmail port and the visibility of Site5 Internet Solutions to my clients are my webmail issues. IMO: Webmail should always be through the standard port :80. That is why I went with Site5. However, the issues listed above causes issues with me and my client(s) and may need to find another host (ASAP). So much for that fun weekend I had planed Last edited by rootbug; 01-08-2005 at 09:42 AM.
Posted by rois, 01-08-2005, 10:35 AM
I think most of reseller host will have their brand shown when clicking on secure login and have had to explain to clients before of who/what the brand is. And the only solution I had was to purchase own ssl which I wasnt willing to. I've not used a reseller that can 'hide' that without having to purchase a ssl.
Posted by Todd Mitchell, 01-08-2005, 03:15 PM
Hello everyone, I'd like to take the opportunity to address some of the issues mentioned in this thread. Please see my comments inline:Unfortunately no matter which hosting company you select a reseller hosting package from, you will see that IP address assignments will always reveal the 'parent' company. For instance with IP assignments from ARIN, a web hosting company would have to effectively create a whole other company to justify receiving a new allocation--which is less than convenient & ARIN regulations would probably prevent this from happening. Secondly, if a company doesn't have their own IP allocation, there will always be an IP allocation owner. So if you do a whois on an allocation, even if the allocation is SWIP'd or rwhois'd, to the anonymous reseller company name, you will still see the owner of the allocation. Third, even if a customer didn't select Site5 for a reseller account, but instead you select a dedicated server; if you do a lookup on the IP addressed assigned to your machine, your customers will see who owns your server. All of the above being said, if you want true anonymity or zero link to another company, you will need to colocate a server & get your own IP allocation from ARIN.A couple of points to make concerning the above comments. First, Site5 uses cPanel/WHM as an underlying control panel--as does a vast majority of web hosting providers. Due to decisions made by the cPanel/WHM development team, the /webmail/ alias is globally configured on the server--not per domain. Thus, impossible to disable or alter without affecting all clients on a given server. Further to this, we have no control over how cPanel/WHM implements their webmail system(s). So along with many other hosts are at cPanel's mercy when features are pushed out. Running webmail over non-standard ports can cumbersome at times, however there are methods to circumvent this to push data over port 80. Moreover, a webmail installation isn't required for each client. You could offer webmail access to all clients threw mail.your-domain.com provided all of your clients are located on the same machine as your primary reseller domain name. In regards to the SSL certificate & the mentioning of Site5. The reason for this is the validation process with the SSL certificate authority that we use. We are required to present a D&B number, our corporation documents, etc. To make this completely anonymous, we would have to setup a shell company with a history in order to receive an SSL certificate from a quality SSL certificate vendor. I hope the above helps explain why things are done the way they are. Hopefully this information will help us keep you as a customer.
Posted by rootbug, 01-08-2005, 04:24 PM
For those that don't know, he is speaking of cPanelProxy. Yes that may work (even for cPanel log-in on :80) but the SSL issue is still there. Since this is system wide, I know not to ask you to remove the "log in secure" link at the bottom of webmail. Certainly. I understand why an SSL certificate needs proper credentials...I just don't see the point why the link is there in webmail. Again...I know, built into cPanel As I've said before, using a shared SSL is fine...but not if its traced back to a company that offers similar (cheaper) products to my own clients. I don't want to compete with the same people I'm paying. Lets use ENOM as an example. A client can find out that xyz.com is reselling for ENOM, but when/if they check them out they find out ENOM retails it for $29.95. Enom is a true domain reseller....and this is why I mentioned the word true hosting reseller above. Even though I'm not terribly happy about all this, thanks Site5 for all your quick responses (support emails & here). I'm quite sure if I cancel my (new) account, it will happen quick and with no surprises.
Posted by Sayouly, 01-09-2005, 10:40 AM
But isn't true of all web control panels (ie plesk ensim ect) that the web mail is bacisly the same. (a hassel to use) The only true way to have web based email outside your domain control panel is to install email software similar to hotmail or what ever. I did this on one of my domains and now I can offer webbased email to all my visitors as well. Just my 2 cents
Posted by rootbug, 01-09-2005, 11:04 AM
Actually, I never had this problem until I went with a cPanel webhost (Site5). Most of the DA & H-S control panel webhost are offering webmail pre-configured (:80) without all the hassle.
Posted by Til, 01-09-2005, 03:27 PM
To solve the problem of webmail & cpanel not being accesible through port 80 on a cPanel-server I use http://cpanelproxy.net/ It works beautifully for me and now I am able to access webmail, cpanel and whm through port 80.
Posted by Matt Lightner, 01-10-2005, 12:52 AM
Definitely--we recommend it often to clients who have trouble connecting to nonstandard ports for NetAdmin/Cpanel/Webmail access. Matt
Posted by Matt Lightner, 01-10-2005, 01:20 AM
I believe the webmail issue has been addressed fairly completely here. The IP address issue is something that virtually all hosts must deal with. We have many of our own shared hosting customers housed on servers located within the Liquidweb datacenter, and they will all be able to see Liquidweb's name if they do an ARIN lookup on the IP, however I hardly consider us to be a reseller. Furthermore I don't think it's fair to add the qualification that your customers will deem that you are not a reseller only if your pricing is lower than the IP address owner's pricing. Often times a "reseller" will set their costs absurdly low in an effort to break into the market and gain customers. It is quite possible that the services you offer are of a higher caliber than those that Liquidweb offers, and a customer would certainly not be making a mistake if they chose your services over Liquidweb's. Or maybe not, but my point is that the assumption that a bigger company's services are always a better buy is not an accurate one. This also applies to the SSL certificate issue. While the server-wide anonymous SSL certificates do list "Site5 Internet Solutions, Inc." as the certificate owner, that information is relatively obscure (a customer would have to view the SSL certificate details (the certificate is on an anonymous domain, not site5.com), and then do a web search for our company name). And while that may happen, it's not as though Site5's name is plastered in front of the user every time they use the shared SSL certificate. And as Todd and others have mentioned, the easy fix for this is to purchase a private SSL certificate. I do, however, very much appreciate the comments on our support response time. This is something we pride ourselves on, and it's always nice to hear that we're continuing to impress people. If there is anything else we can do to make sure that our services meet your needs, please don't hesitate to contact our support department at any time. Matt
Posted by niyogi, 01-10-2005, 04:27 AM
Just following this thread and wanted to point out to stay away from RegisterFly - but that's just a side comment to the point of this thread. :-) Roj
Posted by phenom, 01-10-2005, 08:21 AM
rootbug, I can understand your issues with what you describe under "the bad news," but I must say, based on what I use my account for, that if that's all I have to be concerned about with site5, then I'm very happy that I signed up with them.
Posted by kelvinklay, 01-10-2005, 08:58 AM
site5 layout looks very good to me.
Posted by rootbug, 01-10-2005, 11:39 AM
You mean like....CyberWings J/K The easiest and best way to put this. I just signed up with another reseller and that company uses a data center that only offers dedicated accounts....not $14.95 plans like Liquidweb offers (1G/30G). My client(s) can still do a rDNS but will only see serious dedicated plans and nothing remotely close to what I may offer. I don't think I'm asking too much that a data center should stick to wholesale and not provide what many of us small hosting companies offer. If they do want retail, let them go all out but not offer just one $14.95 account just to piss me off (LOL). I've seen similar "wholesale" companies in different markets (car audio) sell out their side doors to retail clients while providing great discounts for them. Cuts the small guy out. I think you undermine how smart some clients can be. Most people buying/setting up a hosting plan know whats up! After all, it was my client that pointed this out Sure I could buy an SSL certificate....but I don't want to be forced into buying one because I want to hide "Site5 Internet Solutions, Inc." from my clients. After all, its not as if I have 100 clients and would easily be able to absorb its cost. Yes, your support response time was good. Unfortunately, due to the issues outlined, I will need to terminate my Site5 account. I will contact your billing department.. If in the future I need a regular hosting account (not reseller), I will certainly give Site5 another shot (but only if the way cPanel intergrates "webmail" changes or you offer DA/H-S - I really don't like the way cPanel does this).

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