Social Security Number

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Posted by soulstice99, 06-16-2004, 03:21 PM
Hi, I was asked for my social security number when I tried to enroll in a reseller program. They said that a SSN or Employee Identification Number (EIN) is necessary for them to make payouts. Is this unusual? necessary? Thanks for any feedback!
Posted by wiwebhost, 06-16-2004, 03:50 PM
I would recommend refraining from providing your social security number to anyone, especially if they wanted you to email them your number. With the number of identity thefts now-a-days, it is better to be safe than sorry. I am not sure about the company you are dealing with, but there shouldn't be any reason for a host to require your SSN.
Posted by WII-Aaron, 06-16-2004, 03:57 PM
They probably require your SSN or TIN so they can report the payouts to the IRS. This is actually pretty common. Aaron
Posted by wiwebhost, 06-16-2004, 04:19 PM
what type of reseller program is it, a bulk account or a discount type reseller program? Either way, if you do have to provide your SSN, use a more secure method any regular email, phone it in.
Posted by rusko, 06-16-2004, 04:23 PM
if you are reselling their packages, this is required. a US company is required to report all payouts to contractors that total over $600/yr on form 1099. i am not an accountant. this does not mean they won't do bad things with your ssn. paul
Posted by CrazyTech, 06-16-2004, 10:07 PM
Yeah, in order to properly document with the IRS they will definitely need your SSN. It's up to you if you want to share it to see how safe the company is.
Posted by cywkevin, 06-16-2004, 10:17 PM
Yep I was going to say that as well but everyone else already beat me to it. Now it is true that you would want to protect your SSN however, I see no problem giving it to a reputable company that you plan on working with.
Posted by soulstice99, 06-16-2004, 10:24 PM
Still not comfortable surrendering this information to just anyone. Reputable? I'm pretty new around here but I've learned one thing: dont trust anyone. Things move so fast in the online world that it's hard to keep up. That said, I appreciate the feedback and the need of firms to comply with federal laws.
Posted by simpson733, 06-17-2004, 01:06 AM
well i think that some ssn could be given out. If you want too make money you have too pay taxes that same goes in business the govt takes most taxes from us and etc.
Posted by BF-Gary, 06-17-2004, 01:08 AM
In Canada it is illegal to ask for it except for when paying taxes or getting a job.
Posted by simpson733, 06-17-2004, 01:35 AM
wow i didnt knoe that i guess i learned something about canada but i think that in the US it should be appropritate.
Posted by integrityhost1, 06-17-2004, 01:51 AM
I don't want to sound repetitive, but yes it's normal to be asked for as SSN. I believe I had to provide one to Wild West Domains when I signed up with them. However, if you are not comfortable giving it out, there are certainly other reseller programs out there. Basically you would want to find one where your customers PAY YOU directly rather than paying the hosting company and the hosting company paying you a commission. If you are not getting paid by the hosting company, then I wouldn't see any reason for them to have your SSN.
Posted by Laci, 06-17-2004, 08:38 AM
I would go with your gut , if this makes you uncomfortable , don't do it , and look for a different reseller program.
Posted by denisdekat, 06-17-2004, 10:34 AM
I agree to that, but if you are having doubts, maybe you could call them, search for reviews, etc?
Posted by bizness, 06-17-2004, 10:36 AM
I would recommend on not giving out you SS number.
Posted by gilbert, 06-17-2004, 11:06 AM
make up an employee ###### for your biz (you are number 23543943252 at zoohosting.website)
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-18-2004, 09:07 PM
Are we hearing you right, make up a SS#? Anyway, no offense. We hope you're joking. It's illegal to make-up a SS#. We think it's called fraud. The party that is requesting your SS# should have no problem providing you with theirs. If their business is using a Federal Tax I.D. Number then they should be able to provide you with it. You can then contact the IRS, and verify if their number is legitimate. In a business relationship, one should exchange credentials. They should not be demanding them only from you if we understand you. If anyone you're attempting to do business with cannot validate their credentials, run for the hills. On this topic, you are permitted to obtain your own Federal Tax I.D. Number for your business. Just contact the I.R.S. for details. If you are serious about business, you should obtain one. In this way, you do not give-out your SS# but your Fed. Tax I.D. #. Hope this helps.
Posted by HostFolks, 06-18-2004, 09:14 PM
I'm not an American but in my observation the SSN is not some magical totally-unique set of numbers - They go in batches the first 6 digits represent the place and year of issue and the last few are 'you' in that case the way they are laid out people can easily look at their own number and pick 100's from the number ahead to make up a new 'real' number. To go to the efforts to set up a reseller account provider to sift SSN's is a little far fetched.
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-18-2004, 09:29 PM
No problem not being American, business is the international language. Money is money. We just assumed maybe incorrectly, this was a important business deal needing exchange of credentials. If it is some penny anne site that doesn't matter if it's up or not, obviously, exchanging credentials is not necessary, and our SSN requestee should look elsewhere. You're right it is far fetched to ask for SSN or the like for a small time arrangement.
Posted by whmcsguru, 06-18-2004, 10:47 PM
As has been stated (numerous times) before: In order to participate in any profit earning program, these individuals must obtain your SS#. Making it up is not going to cut it, in many cases they will check this. if they're any good they will anyways. Why do they do this? Simple really, to avoid tax fraud. As you are a reseller of these individual's product, you are effectively an employee and representative of said corporation. Inasmuch as you are, they are required to post any and all earnings (as someone said over $600) to the government as earned income. Paypal does it, Google does it, cj (commision junction) does it, any reputable corporation that pays you out is required to get your social security information. It's fully required by law.
Posted by Rodzilla, 06-19-2004, 03:07 AM
I've given my SSN to Google and CafePress, among others, as required. They send me checks for nice sums of money, and they report that to the IRS so I don't cheat on my taxes. It sucks, but it's the law.
Posted by Joobz, 06-19-2004, 11:31 AM
Very true indeed. I really can't see why everyone is being so paranoid about their SSN. You would be very surprised to find out actually how many times your personal information is accessed by people you don't know each and every day. Heck, I can get just about anyone's SSN in less than 5 seconds flat. The SSN alone is not what criminals use to commit identity fraud. Usually it's a combination of things. Such as SSN + mother's maiden name + fake ID, credit card number, etc. Your SSN is no more private than your name or address.
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-19-2004, 01:07 PM
Joobz: You are obviously in the skip tracing or investigation business. Lots of people can obtain private information easily. That does not make it right. The problem here lies in that when someone signs-up with a company, they not only give their social security number but also their address, phone number, full name, drivers license number, and sometimes even mothers maiden name. All this is fine if it's given to a reputable party. All of it together as you correctly stated can be used for fraud. What our point is, make sure the party you're giving your information to is either a known legitimate entity from prior knowledge or research or ask the other party for their credentials. This is just sound business. Some here being puzzled by the concern is puzzling to us. One is not just only giving their SSN on an application. It's just one of many items, all of which should be carefully considered. This should not be a "gut" decision; it should be carefully considered with facts.
Posted by Joobz, 06-19-2004, 04:57 PM
I am not in any way implying one should throw caution to the wind. I routinely check out companies of whom I am considering doing business with. Check their corporate status to see if they are in good standing and retrieve location and principles information. If they are an entity involved in a business requiring special licensing (ie: insurance, real estate, etc) check with the licensing agency. Many will advise checking with the Better Business Bureau but I personally think the BBB is a joke since would be fraudulent companies could easily manipulate this venue. One of the best ways is right here in forums such as this. Chances are, if someone was wronged in some way by a business, they would be more than willing to warn anyone inquiring about it.
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-20-2004, 04:03 PM
Joobz: We appreciate your response, and did not mean to imply you stated "gut decision." Many on this post were making light of giving-out private information. This invites fraud. It is the responsibility of any organization to protect the privacy of it vendors, customers, employees, partners, contractors, etc. On the other side the token, it is the responsibility of any party providing private information to research who they are giving it to. Everytime some party is taken advantage of by a ciminial party in the internet business, it makes ALL of us in the internet business look bad. We are sick and tired of having to sometimes overcome the general bad reputation of computer professionals. We are starting to feel like attorneys(sorry attorneys just joking). We do admit; the general perception of computer professionals is improving. For this reason, we wanted to show our displeasure with those making light of this topic. Again, we appreciate your informative response.
Posted by whmcsguru, 06-20-2004, 04:18 PM
Who is this "we" you speak of? Nobody's making light of anything, it's a straight up fact. IF you make money with a company (above a particular amount), you are required by law to claim it. They are also required by federal law to report it. The US has chosen to do this through SS#'s, right or wrong. You can't MAKE these up, you can't skip it, you can't ignore it. It's called taxes, we all get the pleasure of paying them. End of story, move on.
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-20-2004, 04:59 PM
This is amusing how defensive some become without considering the direction of their defensiveness. We did not state "everyone" on this post just "many." We were trying to be polite. We never stated, "Under no circumstances provide another party with your SSN# or Tax I.D. Number." What we did state is carefully consider who your are giving it and other private informtion to. We understand tax laws as much as we understand fraud. It is important to comply with the law but not expose oneself to fraud. Emotional thoughtless decisions with private information is never advisable. The only parties that would advise that would be those who wished to prey on others or those that are ignorant of fraud. We agree tax laws must be acknowledged and followed. Just be careful about who you are giving your private information to. That's all we are saying. We stand by the statement that NO-ONE should make light of giving away private information without knowing who one is giving it to. This helps prevent fraud, and maintains the credibility of our industry. Last edited by rwfeeec; 06-20-2004 at 05:07 PM.
Posted by whmcsguru, 06-20-2004, 05:42 PM
Once again: Who is this "we" you speak of. You speak for yourself, not a "we". The question was "Is this unusual or necessary?" The question has been answered many times. Is it unusual? No, in fact if you're working for someone who doesn't require it, and is paying you more than is required, then you are working illegally. Is it necessary? YES! In order to comply with federal and local tax laws, a social security number must be provided. Should you 'research' the individuals ? Do you research where you're going to work for? Do you research each and every one of your employers? Employees? You should, but in some cases you can't. As someone else has already said, social security numbers are hardly secret. You can obtain anything you want to know about anyone online. Legally, you're obliged to provide them in situations such as those mentioned in the opening post to this thread. Why hide your ss#? What is it going to do? Nothing. 10:1, it's already online, somewhere in someone's database, whether that someone is the phone company, the cable company, the electric company , your landlord, your local credit check agency, an internet credit agency, a bank, or anything involving credit, employment, state or federal government, or numerous other agencies, it's online already. Quit trying to hide it. "Privacy online" is a myth, it's a fallacy. You have none. Each and every time you submit any bit of information it travels to various agencies (mostly listed above), and it's either sold or stored in a database. There is no privacy while you are online, unless everything you do is submited through SSL tunnels, and most just aren't that smart Now, if the issue was "xxx company wants my cc # for a job", then I could see the frustration and getting upset over sending it out, but it's not, it's a SS# that, quite frankly everyone can access publicly if they look long enough.
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-20-2004, 08:53 PM
We apologize for not clarifying. When we speak of "we." We are speaking of our company not a group on this thread. We, our company, are sorry for any misunderstanding. You're right a party unwilling to provide particular information without just cause may be doing something illegal, however, they may just be cautious. We believe the caution is justified if that's the case. We never suggested people should hide their SS# but at the same time they should not freely provide it to anyone that ask. As far as privacy being a falacy, we don't believe that to be true since every reputable website has a "Privacy Statement." Ask someone who has been a victim of identity theft if privacy is not important. If it's so easy to obtain others private information then why do parties ask for it. Why don't they just ask for a name, and get the rest themselves? There are many public databases but ask almost any of them for someone else's private information, and they're going to want to know who you are, and why you want it. Unless of course, someone hacks into someone else's database and obtains the information illegally. The point is: privacy is a delicate issue, and should be taken seriously. As an example of our company policy, we when asked by a potential vendor for our Tax I.D. Number and such other private information, we in turn ask for their Tax I.D. Number, their D&B number, their place of business, their telephone number, etc. It's amazing how many never return our emails when we were bombarded with their sales pitch emails prior. We will only do business with those that comply with our requests. We also do not ask our customers for their private information without first providing and legitimizing our credentials. These are our policies, like them or not. We stand by them. We have never been screwed by any company we've delt with like so many on these forums. It behoves anyone to check who their dealing with before starting a business relationship. We encourage more individuals and businesses to demand credentials from those asking for your private information unless they are a well know company like Godaddy, Yahoo, etc. These companies and those like them have already proved themselves. We may still get screwed by someone but it's definately much less likely. Those that are unwilling to legitimize themselves through credentials in our opinion are "risky" business. If you choose to do business with them, don't cry later about getting screwed. We are sorry if our position offends some here but we cannot see it any other way, and it's worked for us. We are actually on the same page with those criticizing with one exceptions, we believe it's just as important for the party asking for information also provide their information. Sorry for our excitement but when we read about those suggesting to the party that opened this thread to make-up a number and those that blindly said just give it out, everyone in our company agrees that privacy is extremely important, and felt obligated to inform the party who opened this thread.
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-20-2004, 09:01 PM
I just wanted to further explain our use of "we." If we understand, the rules of this service correctly, it only allows one account per company so if more than one of us here want to participate, we must use the same account. Therefor, we will most likely be "we." By they way, we really appreciate this forum. 'Kind of wish we noticed it earlier. 'Only discoved it, trying to check on something for one of our clients. We enjoy the postings even when we don't agree. There is very good information throughout. A cheesey compliment but hey...
Posted by derekv6, 06-20-2004, 11:54 PM
wow i wouldn't give my social out !
Posted by Joobz, 06-21-2004, 12:03 AM
rwfeeec, you summed this thread up very nicely. It is important for everyone who reads this thread to realize that giving out private information is often necessary when doing business. Just make sure you are able to verify the requester's credentials before doing so. You mentioned a case when you were bombarded with solicitations until you asked the certain vendor to provide credentials - major red flag. The benefit with doing business online is that online businesses are so very competitive that one would be able to move on and do business with another company if they feel uncomfortable with the one they are dealing with now
Posted by rwfeeec, 06-21-2004, 08:45 AM
derekv6: Sometimes you must provide your SS#. The law does actually require it in some cases. Just make sure who you are providing it to.
Posted by Easy Web, 06-22-2004, 06:44 PM
From what I understand, a company is not required to have your social security number unless you make over $600 with them in commision. Many large companies require it on signing up though, it saves them time. If you are going to give them your ss# it would be a good idea to check them out with the BBB.

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